Rear Disc Brakes for a Sunbeam Alpine! Tiger?

[PROCRAFT]

Thanks Joel, Interesting site... shall return to it....

Earl's started out years ago in Hawthorn California selling surplus aircraft hardware fittings etc eventually they started manufacturing there own line of fittings,they are now owned by Holly. Earl's Indy is an independent shop owned by a friend of mine supplying most of the race shops and company's in Indy.

 

[DanR]

Here are a few PIC's of the Rear Disc system using P185 60 14 wheels and tires on the rear of my '65 SIV GT............ These are Center Line wheels.

1st PIC shows 3/4" from the inside of the wheel to the Banjo bolt head. This is where I measured as if there was a straight edge on the inside lip of the wheel toward the opposite side of the car. The wheel (rim) could move inward 3/4 inch before touching the Banjo bolt head.

2nd PIC I have rather large hands and here you can see there is plenty of clearance between the wheel and the caliper nearest the Banjo bolt head.

3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th PIC's You can see there is more than an inch clearance between the wheel and the caliper housing at the closest point.
E-brake lever has good clearance also

I will Proof the Wire Wheels next.

 

[Aladin Sane]

Those look great Dan.

 

[DanR]

Here are some PIC's of the rear disc calipers for the Alpine using the stock wire wheels. As you will plainly see the wheel is old and a bit rusty just for mock-up use only. Did not wish to scratch or mark the good ones

The following PICs are marked in "yellow" to depict the areas between the caliper and the wire rim.

The caliper has more than adequate space for clearance except at the very top and bottom.

Both places where the caliper touches the wire rim is very minor and still allows for the wheel to be turned/rotated.

Next on the agenda is to figure for more spacing! Just how that can be accomplished may be spacer (s) between the rear alpine wire hub and the rotor? Not at all sure where to next....

As of now the 14 and 15 in wheels I have fit the Calipers with more than adequate clearance. There is no problem with the banjo fitting clearance either.

 

[Barry]

Dan,

Do factory 13" steel "disc" wheels clear the Saturn calipers?

 

[DanR]

So far I can not figure a way to mate them up! Have few PICs of where I was trying to get them to fit. Will post them later.

Think I will need a spacer?

 

[Bill Blue]

Dan, I don't think you can move the rotor without moving the caliper. To do so will shorten the amount of space reserved for pad movement to accommodate pad wear. It looks like the caliper casting could be ground away to gain clearance and not have any impact on caliper performance or strength. But better give it a good, I might be wrong. It has happened at least once before!

Bill

 

[DanR]

Dan, I don't think you can move the rotor without moving the caliper. To do so will shorten the amount of space reserved for pad movement to accommodate pad wear. It looks like the caliper casting could be ground away to gain clearance and not have any impact on caliper performance or strength. But better give it a good, I might be wrong. It has happened at least once before!

Bill

Bill, I have not yet given it much thought..... but what I have, I am referring to a spacer between the hub and the caliper of maybe a 1/2" and having longer wheel studs to compensate?

Like I said, not too much thought yet

 

[Fergusonic]

Another thing to consider is that a wire- spoke wheel will flex a little; thus possibly requiring a little more clearance of your caliper.

 

[Barry]

Bill, I have not yet given it much thought..... but what I have, I am referring to a spacer between the hub and the caliper of maybe a 1/2" and having longer wheel studs to compensate?

Like I said, not too much thought yet

I think the spacer would have to go between the rotor mounting surface (the "hat") and the wire wheel adapter hub. That would leave the caliper & rotor where they are and move the adapter hub and wheel outboard. The potential fly in the spacer ointment is that the wire wheels / tires at the rear are already 1" further outboard than disc wheels / tires and fender clearance might be an issue. Probably not an issue with the narrow 4" wide factory wire wheels, but it might be with wider wheels.

 

[Bill Blue]

Bill, I have not yet given it much thought..... but what I have, I am referring to a spacer between the hub and the caliper of maybe a 1/2" and having longer wheel studs to compensate?

Like I said, not too much thought yet

I am having trouble visualizing this. I'm thinking this means moving the caliper, either in or out, but not moving the rotor? When contemplating such problems, my mind blows fuses.

Bill

 

[260Alpine]

Bill, I think Dan just means a spacer between the wheel and rotor to move the wheel out. Caliper and rotor would stay the same.

 

[DanR]

Jim, That is what I was thinking! And as Barry stated if it moved the wheel out that could bring about additional problems.

Instead of a spacer I came up with this idea..... It may have some merit... Here are some PIC's that may have an answer in there some where?



Looking at the hub for a while I figured that I could mount the rotor on the back side (Inner) of the hub in lieu of the front (outer side). Same bolt pattern! It will give more than adequate spacing for the wire wheel.

A good view can be had by looking through the cut out spokes.

Question: Will this cause any undue stress on the 4 bolts holding the rotor to the hub. Same 4 bolts as holding the rotor from the outer side.....

Maybe I should be looking for a rotor that would provide a deeper dish that would provide the needed space between the caliper and the wire rim?

I haven't tried the reverse of the rotor with the 13 steel wheels yet either.

 

[260Alpine]

Dan, That moves the wheel out also. The bolts end up flush? I would use Loctite on the 4 bolts and find some slightly longer. Should have a couple of threads protruding.

 

[DanR]

I don't think it moves the wheel out! Unless I am "wanting to not see it move"
Jim, the hub stays bolted in the same place as stock. The wheel is secured in the same way, in the same position.

The rotor was moved from the front (outer side of the hub), Pulled the hub, bolted the rotor to the rear (inside) of the hub close to the axle, Then placed the hub back on the axle. The rotor sits farther inward by about 1 inch, the hub measures the same distance from the housing as before (stock position). The wheel when mounted is in the same position as stock.

A few more threads can easily be added and utilize Loctite.

If all of this is OK? Next is a means of again securing the caliper to the axle. I need to come up with a spacer (about 1 inch thick) to go behind and between the axle flange and the Caliper bracket.

As of now the calipers and rotors work for the 14 and 15 inch wheels. Don't have the final for the 13 in stock wheels yet. But I do believe the wire wheels will work too! Just need to get some engineering approval of the positioning of the rotors.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, please keep them coming,

 

[DanR]

Here are some PIC's showing wheel & tire clearance for the wire wheel mounted with the rotor "inside" of the hub and a stock Alpine drum rear wheel in comparison (they are the exact same distance) from tire to leaf spring.

Also, I mounted the four bolt hub and rotor to determine clearance with the Caliper. I believe if I use a 1/2 inch spacer between the hub and the stock steel 13" wheel there should be adequate space/clearance. PIC's to follow:


I'll do some more tinkering on the 13" wire and 13" steel wheels")

 

[Gordon Holsinger]

Here are some PIC's showing wheel & tire clearance for the wire wheel mounted with the rotor "inside" of the hub and a stock Alpine drum rear wheel in comparison (they are the exact same distance) from tire to leaf spring. View attachment 18268 View attachment 18269

Also, I mounted the four bolt hub and rotor to determine clearance with the Caliper. I believe if I use a 1/2 inch spacer between the hub and the stock steel 13" wheel there should be adequate space/clearance. PIC's to follow:
View attachment 18271 View attachment 18272 View attachment 18273 View attachment 18274 View attachment 18275 View attachment 18276

I'll do some more tinkering on the 13" wire and 13" steel wheels")

Dan I would be interested in rear discs for a wire wheel car keep me posted

 

[DanR]

Will this setup fit inside a 14" wheel?

It works on two different 14" wheels I have.

 

[Aladin Sane]

Have you figured out pricing yet?

 

[DanR]

Working on that right now!