Toyota's Monster

[Nickodell]

Things are about to get hotter for Mr. Sikes than his brakes. I heard a slightly garbled radio trans that some lab (state, federal, independent?) had tested his Prius, and others, and found that every time the brakes were applied the throttle was disabled, just as Toyota said. They were the same people who had done studies on the suppose self-accelerating Audi 4000 in the 1980s and found that, as they concluded from their Prius tests, the acceleration was driver-caused (like my episode when I accidentally straddled the brake and accelerator with my shoe).

 

[Bill Blue]

Things are about to get hotter for Mr. Sikes than his brakes. I heard a slightly garbled radio trans that some lab (state, federal, independent?) had tested his Prius, and others, and found that every time the brakes were applied the throttle was disabled, just as Toyota said. They were the same people who had done studies on the suppose self-accelerating Audi 4000 in the 198os and found that, as the concluded from their Prius tests, the acceleration was driver-caused (like my episode when I accidentally straddled the brake and accelerator with my shoe).

So how did the brakes get cooked if the throttle drops out? I'm not trying to defend him, but until someone explains how he was able to cook the brakes, he's telling the truth.

Bill

 

[RootesRacer]

So how did the brakes get cooked if the throttle drops out? I'm not trying to defend him, but until someone explains how he was able to cook the brakes, he's telling the truth.

Bill

Because the system allows some level of throttle to be engaged prior to removal of the throttle control due to brake influence.

Or simply, the brakes can be on a little, the throttle opened a little, up to a particular brakes pressure, then it cuts all throttle.

Anyhow, this feature appears to be what he was fighting in order to cook his brakes and the log shows it.

 

[Bill Blue]

Because the system allows some level of throttle to be engaged prior to removal of the throttle control due to brake influence.

Or simply, the brakes can be on a little, the throttle opened a little, up to a particular brakes pressure, then it cuts all throttle.

Anyhow, this feature appears to be what he was fighting in order to cook his brakes and the log shows it.

Sounds like a strange condition to program into a car that is all about mileage as I've never had to drive with one foot on the gas, the other on the brake. But if it is possible, that's probably what happened.

I bet that program gets changed!

Bill

 

[RootesRacer]

Sounds like a strange condition to program into a car that is all about mileage as I've never had to drive with one foot on the gas, the other on the brake. But if it is possible, that's probably what happened.

I bet that program gets changed!

Bill

You live where it snows right?

One foot on the gas and one on the brake is poor mans limited slip.

I wouldnt be able to get up my driveway in my open diff 2WD jeep without it.

 

[Bill Blue]

You live where it snows right?

One foot on the gas and one on the brake is poor mans limited slip.

I wouldnt be able to get up my driveway in my open diff 2WD jeep without it.

Yeah, I live where it snows, but with fwd I can go most anywhere I want to driving with only one foot. But I've used the two foot technique a couple of times. Can't the 'puter tell the difference between stuck and 90 miles an hour?

Bill

 

[Ron67Alpine]

The only thing the left foot should ever be used for, while driving, is the clutch. By resting your left foot on the brake you are activating it, no matter how slightly, causing drag and activating the brake light, making the driver behind you believe you are braking every 2 seconds. I'm constantly driving behind these people who were never taught the correct way to drive.

 

[Bill Blue]

Anyhow, this feature appears to be what he was fighting in order to cook his brakes and the log shows it.

Which brings up interesting questions. Did the California Lexus have a log and when will Toyota release the data?

Bill

 

[wipeout]

Mr. Sykes is in deep do do now. The National Highway Safety something or other , investigating his report said he had to be purposefully lying...as the information retrieved from the "black box" shows no apparent application of the brakes during full throttle. This isn't Toyota trying to cover it up...this is a separate body of people coming up with the same conclusion as Toyota.

If Sykes is telling the truth, his lawsuit should already be on the County's desk.

 

[RootesRacer]

Which brings up interesting questions. Did the California Lexus have a log and when will Toyota release the data?

Bill

The Lexus with the officer that was killed is said to be one of the clear cases of the carpet sticking the accelerator pedal.

Toyota isnt going to get off the hook though becuase it was a "loaner" car while his was getting fixed.


Also, over the last several days, the vehicle logs on some high profile "TV" cases have been released showing in some cases fraud, and in others obvious confusion between the brake and accelerator pedal, which IMO is probably the situation on the bulk of these claims.

 

[RootesRacer]

You guys still paying attention here with the current events?

Like Ive been telling you, keep an open mind to these situations and keep the lynching rope on the shelf till the real consensus arrives.

 

[sunbeam74]

It is an interesting situation. I hate to say it Toyota is going to be faced with many incidents contrived or staged in the future.

Did they have an issue to begin prior to the hubbub? It is hard to say however prior to the hubbub numerically there had been a steep increase of complaints to the NHSA in the last 5-6 years. More so than other manufacturers.

Of course all manufacturers have complaints regarding unintended accelaration through out the year as most records show.

It will be ugly for Toyota for awhile... let's hope it doesn't take them as long as Audi to recover. It took them 15 years to achieve the same sales levels prior to their battle with unintended accelaration. (of course, I thought their product line was sort of weak for many years following that event)


Steve

 

[Eleven]

Maybe I missed it in 112 posts but am curious and watching to see if anyone goes after GM. They have been a long term Toyota partner and even sold one of thier cars (Pontiac Vibe). Also, there has to be other manufacturers out there with similar problems. Few if any auto companies make every part. Even in the day of our Alpines, many of the parts are interchangable with MG, Triumph, etc. Same in the US. In fact one reason for the GM bailout was to protect those part suppliers. So who else bought the control units that Toyota uses?

 

[Bill Blue]

Yes, about every car has reported incidents of UIA.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nhtsa-data-dive-3-117-models-ranked-by-rate-of-ua-incidents/

NHSTA data places deaths due to UIA for a recent ten year period at 110. 51 for Toyota, 20 for Ford and 12 for Chrysler. The rates drop off to single digits from there.

Bill

 

[RootesRacer]

Denso makes the vehicle controls, the ECUs usually are the same hardware with minor stuffing variations and different mapping and features installed.

Denso and others (CTS in the US) make the pedal sensors.

Its very interesting that you arent hearing failures from the other Japanese manufacturers regarding these issues considering its the same vender, same hardware and mostly the same software.

Also interesting that the same cars are not having failures in Europe or Asia.

 

[Eleven]

In my world, property & casualty insurance, when the press wants to beat up on an insurance company, they always pick Allstate, Farmers or State Farm. Because these guys are evil? Nope, everyone knows their name. No headlines in Boblink Mutual. Wonder if the herd mentality in the press is at work here also. I've had the throttle stick before, amazing how you are stunned for the moment before you react. If I can post the photo, this guy did no react!!

 

[Bill Blue]

I think that when one manufacturer accounts for nearly 50% of the deaths due to sudden unintended acceleration, they have a problem. What that problem is, I don't know. But I don't think it is public relations or the press "piling on".

 

[Chuck Ingram]

My daughter in law just has had an experience with her Honda CRV.
she was paralell parking and as she put it into drive to move forward it took off.Fortunatrly she had her foot on the brake but there was some damage.Mostly because she hit a truck that had a trailer hitch sticking out.No damage at all to the truck
Insurance doesn't buy her story so they are stuck with the decutible

 

[Bill Blue]

I read on another board that Toyota is doing a software patch on the cars that are being returned for a new pedal and that the fix is actually the software, the pedal being a smoke screen to get the cars into the shop. Does anyone know what the patch does?

To me, this is so much like Toyota, fix the problem while denying the problem ever existed.

Bill

 

[RootesRacer]

I read on another board that Toyota is doing a software patch on the cars that are being returned for a new pedal and that the fix is actually the software, the pedal being a smoke screen to get the cars into the shop. Does anyone know what the patch does?

To me, this is so much like Toyota, fix the problem while denying the problem ever existed.

Bill

Neah, once again you have to be very careful where you get your info.

Toyota is tweaking their firmware to alter the the conditions under which the brakes halt the DBW drivers. This in order the give the driver a sense of security that pressing the brakes will stop the DBW system. The purpose does not really add safety, but a warm fuzzy to the concerned owner.

The down side is that now they cant use a little of each (brake and gas).

It also wouldnt surprise me a bit if they are also adding more logging capabilities to the ECU since the people going back for the new pedal are the squeaky wheel and the ones more likely to run into future liabilities, real or contrived.
Thus far though in all cases that have required the data to be retrieved, the computer and hardware has been exonerated.