• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

Toyota's Monster

B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
I have heard mechanics say the problem was that Toyota did not give the brakes priority over the throttle, which other manufacturers do. Sounds like that is true and the patch addresses the situation.

To say this does not add to safety is to deny there is a possibility of a problem, as a car can stop more quickly without full throttle than with. If the patch had been in the California Lexus, the result would not have been so tragic.

Bill
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
The brakes always had priority, the issue is that it would allow the DBW to function to a particular break force/accelerator position threshold.
Not if the brake is hammered to the floor, and the accel is ignored past a particular position when the brakes are gently applied.

Lastly, the report from the CHP in the CA case put blame on the carpets, which had stuck several days earlier on another customer.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
So lets say the accelerator jammed, the driver just tried to control the speed, i.e., gave a moderate braking effort. The brakes burn out, loose effectiveness to the point they can no longer keep the speed in check and the car really takes off. Shouldn't the accelerator have dropped out as the braking force was increased? Seems like I always come back to a malfunction of the DBW.

Bill
 
socorob

socorob

Donation Time
With antilock brakes, i guess theres no telltale skidmarks to know if they hit the brakes and nothing happened and everyone is telling the truth except for toyota, or if everyone lied and toyota is telling the truth.
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
socorob said:
With antilock brakes, i guess theres no telltale skidmarks to know if they hit the brakes and nothing happened and everyone is telling the truth except for toyota, or if everyone lied and toyota is telling the truth.
Click to expand...

Antilock brakes or not, the brake switch goes to the ECU along with the brake lights. The ECU knows that the brake pedal was at least pressed hard enough that the brake lights came on, the ECU will know and log it.

The NTSB (not Toyota) looked at the black boxes, but I suppose there will always be skeptics.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
RootesRacer said:
Antilock brakes or not, the brake switch goes to the ECU along with the brake lights. The ECU knows that the brake pedal was at least pressed hard enough that the brake lights came on, the ECU will know and log it.

The NTSB (not Toyota) looked at the black boxes, but I suppose there will always be skeptics.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a niggling point, but does the black box record when the brake pedal was depressed or when the 'puter applied the brakes?

I was ready to lynch Toyota for their policy of corporate secrecy and penchant for stonewalling, which lead to the 16 million dollar fine. As a regulator that had to deal with Toyota, that fine felt good.

Everyone that makes cars has problems, all I expect is for the manufacturers to respond in a responsible manner and within the legal framework. Perhaps Toyota has seen the light, early indications are that they have.

Bill
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Bill Blue said:
Perhaps a niggling point, but does the black box record when the brake pedal was depressed or when the 'puter applied the brakes?

I was ready to lynch Toyota for their policy of corporate secrecy and penchant for stonewalling, which lead to the 16 million dollar fine. As a regulator that had to deal with Toyota, that fine felt good.

Everyone that makes cars has problems, all I expect is for the manufacturers to respond in a responsible manner and within the legal framework. Perhaps Toyota has seen the light, early indications are that they have.

Bill
Click to expand...

The black box will definitely have all safety related sensory info, this would include pedal position, throttle position, veh speed, braking input (brake switch) and likely pressure and PWM data for the ABS system.

Toyota definitely screwed the pooch on the PR front, but its looking like if there were any actual cases of unintended acceleration they were responsible for, the floor mats were the right fix.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
RootesRacer said:
The black box will definitely have all safety related sensory info, this would include pedal position, throttle position, veh speed, braking input (brake switch) and likely pressure and PWM data for the ABS system.

Toyota definitely screwed the pooch on the PR front, but its looking like if there were any actual cases of unintended acceleration they were responsible for, the floor mats were the right fix.
Click to expand...

My experience with Toyota says we will never know the real problem as they simultaneously called in a lot of cars for software updates.

I know of instances where Toyota fixed an environmental problem and would never admit a problem ever existed, even to the regulators that hounded them into compliance. Sort of like the statement they made when they paid the fine, they paid the 16 mill just to get the feds off their back, claiming they never did anything wrong. They're an awful bit like Fonzie.

Bill
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top