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First in a series about the V6 conversion
- Thread starter Jim E
- Start date
Chuck Ingram
Donation Time
Wow Jim
Your almost as fast as the V6s
I did just add a foot note to the story
Your almost as fast as the V6s
I did just add a foot note to the story
reinventing the wheel
my hat is off to jim e for the series on v6 mods we all think we can do things a little different. and this is true i bought a v6 conversion on ebay with the seller telling me all the good stuff that was done to the pine. the first mistake he made was he didnt use joses kit the engine was a stock bobcat with an automatic phooo needles to say all that was done for the conversion needs to be redone i want to thank jim e and jose as well as alot of others on the forum for the posts as to what works and what doesnt, how to , what to use , where to locate , as well as custom fab parts, for an old guy that hadnt turned a wrench in over 30 years.. (my first cas was a 62 alpine. that was my daily driver and undefeated at edgewater drag strip for a season and half . then in 68 started dreaming about doing a v6 conversion.but put it off and sold the pine. now the dream is coming true again thanks to all for all tha help earl (bluoval )
my hat is off to jim e for the series on v6 mods we all think we can do things a little different. and this is true i bought a v6 conversion on ebay with the seller telling me all the good stuff that was done to the pine. the first mistake he made was he didnt use joses kit the engine was a stock bobcat with an automatic phooo needles to say all that was done for the conversion needs to be redone i want to thank jim e and jose as well as alot of others on the forum for the posts as to what works and what doesnt, how to , what to use , where to locate , as well as custom fab parts, for an old guy that hadnt turned a wrench in over 30 years.. (my first cas was a 62 alpine. that was my daily driver and undefeated at edgewater drag strip for a season and half . then in 68 started dreaming about doing a v6 conversion.but put it off and sold the pine. now the dream is coming true again thanks to all for all tha help earl (bluoval )
J
Jim D
SII Conversion
I own a series 2 Alpine with a 1725 engine that is getting a liitle tired and smoky. I intend to rebuild the car and re-power with a v6. Obviously the 2.8 ford engine is best option. Unfortunately Mustang II's and their engines (canadian essex 2.8) are a little thin on the ground down here in New Zealand. I have a 2.9 cologne v6 which i am considering as an option coupled to a toyota supra 5 speed trans with components from www.conversioncomp.co.nz. Does the installation of this engine pose any problems different to those for installing a North American 2.8 and would Jose conversion kit still do the job. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
I own a series 2 Alpine with a 1725 engine that is getting a liitle tired and smoky. I intend to rebuild the car and re-power with a v6. Obviously the 2.8 ford engine is best option. Unfortunately Mustang II's and their engines (canadian essex 2.8) are a little thin on the ground down here in New Zealand. I have a 2.9 cologne v6 which i am considering as an option coupled to a toyota supra 5 speed trans with components from www.conversioncomp.co.nz. Does the installation of this engine pose any problems different to those for installing a North American 2.8 and would Jose conversion kit still do the job. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
Hi Jim,
I'm not familiar with the Aussie 2.9 Cologne, as you call it, so is a bit hard to give a definitive answer. The Aussie version might have a different exhaust port configuration than the American version, but if it has evenly spaced exhaust ports, like the American version, they will foul the steering arms. The Cologne 2.8 V6 has two of the exhaust ports next to each other, with the last port sitting by itself. This configuration allows the steering arm to clear the steering arm. Maybe you could post a picture of the 2.9 V6 heads, so we could better see if they would fit the alpine.
I believe that the motor mounts from the kit will fit and also the transmission support crossmember. The only thing that will not fit, are the headers, unless the exhaust port arrangement is the same as the 2.8 Cologne. I have heard fo guys putting the Essex V6 into the Alpine, but have never seen or done one of those conversions.
Jose
I'm not familiar with the Aussie 2.9 Cologne, as you call it, so is a bit hard to give a definitive answer. The Aussie version might have a different exhaust port configuration than the American version, but if it has evenly spaced exhaust ports, like the American version, they will foul the steering arms. The Cologne 2.8 V6 has two of the exhaust ports next to each other, with the last port sitting by itself. This configuration allows the steering arm to clear the steering arm. Maybe you could post a picture of the 2.9 V6 heads, so we could better see if they would fit the alpine.
I believe that the motor mounts from the kit will fit and also the transmission support crossmember. The only thing that will not fit, are the headers, unless the exhaust port arrangement is the same as the 2.8 Cologne. I have heard fo guys putting the Essex V6 into the Alpine, but have never seen or done one of those conversions.
Jose
J
Jim D
Thanks Jose,
It seems the 2.9 L engine does have a different exhaust port configuration from the 2.8L engine that may interfer with the steering arm, as you point out. There is a resonably good photo of this at http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cologne_V6_engine. The engine i have has three distinct exhaust ports per head. If the 2.8L engine is a better bet for this conversion, and your headers etc. are designed for an engine that two manifold pipes per side as standard I will be my quest to find one!
Regard,
Jim Deere
It seems the 2.9 L engine does have a different exhaust port configuration from the 2.8L engine that may interfer with the steering arm, as you point out. There is a resonably good photo of this at http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cologne_V6_engine. The engine i have has three distinct exhaust ports per head. If the 2.8L engine is a better bet for this conversion, and your headers etc. are designed for an engine that two manifold pipes per side as standard I will be my quest to find one!
Regard,
Jim Deere
Hi Jim,
There were two versions of the 2.8 Cologne V6. One was the UK version, which had only two exhaust ports, because two of them were siamesed, while the North American spec engine had three distinct exhaust ports. The North American spec engine has two ports close together, where they were siamesed before, with one port seperate. The engine blocks are the same, as far as I know, but the heads are completely different on, both the exhaust side and the intake as well. To interchange heads, it will be necessary to change intake manifolds too.
The headers from my kit will only fit the three port design. The rest of the kit would fit either engine, so if you wanted to run the two exhaust port engine, you'd only need to have someone make you a set of headers to fit your engine. I have a friend in the UK that bought our kit without the headers and almost has his Alpine done. The two tube headers are much simpler to build, than the three tube header.
Jose
There were two versions of the 2.8 Cologne V6. One was the UK version, which had only two exhaust ports, because two of them were siamesed, while the North American spec engine had three distinct exhaust ports. The North American spec engine has two ports close together, where they were siamesed before, with one port seperate. The engine blocks are the same, as far as I know, but the heads are completely different on, both the exhaust side and the intake as well. To interchange heads, it will be necessary to change intake manifolds too.
The headers from my kit will only fit the three port design. The rest of the kit would fit either engine, so if you wanted to run the two exhaust port engine, you'd only need to have someone make you a set of headers to fit your engine. I have a friend in the UK that bought our kit without the headers and almost has his Alpine done. The two tube headers are much simpler to build, than the three tube header.
Jose
Jim E
Donation Time
61Alpine
Silver Level Sponsor
Jim,
Great job. The photos are great. I am in the process of my second V6 mod and it is helpful to review what you have done as a reminder. It sure is easier the second time because you know what needs to be done and don't have to put the engine in and out 50 times, just a few.
Keep up the good work.
Are you going to put a tunnel in the cross member to run dual exhaust through. I have about 2 more hours work to finish mine. Makes for a nice way to run the exhaust.
Great job. The photos are great. I am in the process of my second V6 mod and it is helpful to review what you have done as a reminder. It sure is easier the second time because you know what needs to be done and don't have to put the engine in and out 50 times, just a few.
Keep up the good work.
Are you going to put a tunnel in the cross member to run dual exhaust through. I have about 2 more hours work to finish mine. Makes for a nice way to run the exhaust.
Chuck Ingram
Donation Time
Jim
You are doing great. Keep it up as I look forward to your article.
Another thing about the V6 conversion VS the V8 conversion is you do not have to touch the center floor brace.Thats where the shifter will be if you go V8.The V8 conversion requires this to be cut and a box welded in top and bottom to retain rigidity.I know of some who never did that.Just one more thing that makes the V6 such a nice conversion
Why did I change from the 6 to an 8? I just love the 351 in the Lister.Would I build another V6? If I was a wee bit younger the answer would be YES.
You are doing great. Keep it up as I look forward to your article.
Another thing about the V6 conversion VS the V8 conversion is you do not have to touch the center floor brace.Thats where the shifter will be if you go V8.The V8 conversion requires this to be cut and a box welded in top and bottom to retain rigidity.I know of some who never did that.Just one more thing that makes the V6 such a nice conversion
Why did I change from the 6 to an 8? I just love the 351 in the Lister.Would I build another V6? If I was a wee bit younger the answer would be YES.
britbeam
Donation Time
Help
Jim I dont find any V6 articles. Howbout some help on this. You know I cant leave well enough alone. Especially when well enough runs better with a V6. LOL
Dwain V6 Krazy
Jim I dont find any V6 articles. Howbout some help on this. You know I cant leave well enough alone. Especially when well enough runs better with a V6. LOL
Dwain V6 Krazy
V_Mad
Donation Time
Hi Chuck. Getting the 351 into the Alpine must have been a real tight squeeze. We have a guy called Dean in the Tiger Owners Club (UK) who put a 351W into his Tiger. The engine was sroked to 427, and he had to machine the exhaust ports to get room for the headers, plus modify the oil pan. The car has phenomenal performance, and surpised a few people when it went off the clock along the Mulsanne straight at the 2006 Le Mans Classic! Theres an article in the club magazine. I wondered if you knew about him?
Jim E
Donation Time
Guys the V6 series has not been added to this site yet. I am sure Ian will get it up in a while. I am working on the next in the series now.
Anyone who cannot wait pop me a email or private message and will send the write ups [that are done] to you on CD, but you need to pay a couple bucks for postage and such.
Oh tried emailing the write ups and have a problem with teh pictures not going thru but will give it a shot if anyone wants to try email.
Anyone who cannot wait pop me a email or private message and will send the write ups [that are done] to you on CD, but you need to pay a couple bucks for postage and such.
Oh tried emailing the write ups and have a problem with teh pictures not going thru but will give it a shot if anyone wants to try email.
Chuck Ingram
Donation Time
No I didn't know about this fellow but then there are a few very hot sunbeams out there.Mine started because I had a 351 and back in 89/90 when I started on the Lister some said it could not be done with out major cutting.I guess I had to prove them wrong.It was tight.The engine is mild.I didn't think I could use headers as I did try.Exhaust is tiger manifolds and 2 inch pipes.Clearnce from exhaust manifolds to frame is measured with a feeling gauge.These needed to be installed with engine partly in place while hanging.
The engine was balanced as well and run 12 times on the dyno.Net figures were 270 HP and 330 pounds of torque almost across the whole rpm range.It is very docile and can pull in 5th from 800 rpm.I have started in 5th to prove it can be done.
As to tight I have to drop the tranny mount if I want to remove the left valve cover and thats with removing metal on that side for a bit more clearance.
We don't seem to drive too much any more and the 62 is great.My wife likes to go out in the Model A with the top down.No hurry up or speeding.
Jim E
Donation Time
The best and easiest is for me to just mail the CD has some good stuff on it for both 4 and 6 cylinder Alpines. There is a lot of scanned images and other largerish image files and often the email attachments are bigger than folks in box will accept. Anyone interested PM me you mailing address and I will send one along.