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First in a series about the V6 conversion

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
Jim
Now you will need to add something after your name.I don't think
"Author, Author" quite says it good enough.
Maybe something like "Mr Tec writer":) :)
I do look forward to seeing it all.
25 years with a V6
 

weaselkeeper

Silver Level Sponsor
Well Done and On Target!! I must be somewhere in Chapter Two or Three and can't wait to see it and the chapters that follow.
 

Jeff Scoville

Donation Time
Nice work Jim, Hope to see more contributions.
I'm thinking of doing an article on "How to throw a ton of money at an Alpine"!
 

britbeam

Donation Time
Great article Jim. Ofcourse Im biased also . Paul posted a couple of pics of my V6 Alpine in the photo gallery. One of the car and the other of the engine compartment. Look forward to the next article.
Dwain V6 Krazy
 

Drnobeam

Donation Time
Really nice peice Jim. I've struggled with desire for a V6, but my Alpine has matching engine numbers and runs good. For a stock Alpine. Okay, you're right. It's weak. 86 ponies is just plain boring.

Hey, I installed the hardened axle keys you sent me. The rest should be a cinch!

Looking forward to future installments.
 

Jim E

Donation Time
Thanks everyone I am glad you enjoy the piece, the next installment is about finished and should be up in a few days or so.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Andy, Jim can also tell you how you whoop that 86 up to about 110 and no one will know the difference by looking under the hood.

Bill
 

Drnobeam

Donation Time
I do have a spare head that I was saving for a rainy day Vizard modification, but...

I owned a '74 2.8 Capri in the late 70s. It pulled like an 8 and was very smooth. It would be nice to get the same power from the Alpine without sacrificing the stock Rootes engine. Even though it's understressed, it was not exactly a state of the art design in it's day, 43 years ago.

Really looking forward to Jim's next installments.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
I do have a spare head that I was saving for a rainy day Vizard modification, but...

I owned a '74 2.8 Capri in the late 70s. It pulled like an 8 and was very smooth. It would be nice to get the same power from the Alpine without sacrificing the stock Rootes engine. Even though it's understressed, it was not exactly a state of the art design in it's day, 43 years ago.

Really looking forward to Jim's next installments.

From what i hear Jim Stones engine (the chev rod one) is about as smooth and nice as a tractable relaible alpine gets.

Chev rods, Vizard head, Electronic ignition balance, lighten and carefully assemble.
 

64beam

Donation Time
Hi Andy,

I know that alot of people are going towards the V6 conversion with its V8-like power, but there is still potential with the old Rootes engine as Michael stated. There are still options that could give the Alpine what it should have had back in the sixties.

Regards, Robin.
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
I do have a spare head that I was saving for a rainy day Vizard modification, but...

I owned a '74 2.8 Capri in the late 70s. It pulled like an 8 and was very smooth. It would be nice to get the same power from the Alpine without sacrificing the stock Rootes engine. Even though it's understressed, it was not exactly a state of the art design in it's day, 43 years ago.

Really looking forward to Jim's next installments.
Hi Andy,

The reason I got started on the V6 Alpine, was that I bought three new Capris', in 1072, 1973, and 1974. All of them had a V6. I loved the engine, so thought that a small soprts car would be the perfect car to receive one. I see that you also enjoyed your Capri with the V6 too.

Your desire to keep your Alpine stock, because it has matching numbers, is understandable. What would keep you from saving another Alpine from the crusher, and put a V6 into it? You wouldn't be disappointed, I can assure you. I chatted with Jim Ellis the other day and asked him if he had expected his V6 Alpine to perform like it does. He said that not only did it meet his expectations, but exceeded them by a long shot.:)

I know that a lot of guys want to preserve the four cylinder that came in these cars, so talk about how these old engines can be hopped up to produce more power. I seriously doubt that there is anyone in this club that has more experience modifying these engines than Jim Ellis, yet when he took his hottie to a dyno, he was disappointed with the amount of power it produced. (I can't remember how much it produced, but it was less than 80 hp.) I hear that you can get 110 hp. from the engine, but Jim sure didn't. How much money would it take to get that kind of power, and how reliable would it be. For the same amount of money, you could get at least double the power from the little V6, yet it will easily live for more than 100,000 miles, without having to have any work done to the engine. This conversion will also get about 24 miles to the gallon of gas, while producing more than 200 hp.

I think that most of the guys that are so interested in using the four cylinder engine, have never spent some time driving a V6 powered Alpine. Jim Ellis, who was the greatest advocate of modifying the old four, has recently stated that, "The V6 Alpine will ruin a stock Alpine for you". I don't see the V6 conversion as a detrement to the preservation of Alpines. As an example, the first Alpine that I converted, is still running strong, and that was built 37 years ago. True, it is not running the first V6 that I put into it, but it is still running and thrilling the present owner. At the same time, I managed to save an Alpine that was, most likely, going to be crushed. The only thing that it had in it's favor, was the fact that it had a perfectly straight and rust free body. I don't recommend restoring a car that needs so much work and money to restore it, but it can still save some Alpines that would otherwise be distroyed.

If you liked your Capri with the V6, you will absolutely love a V6 Alpine. It is lighter than the Capri, so performes better. It will give you all the thrilling sensations of acceleration, plus will cut corners like a surgeons scalpel. I'll bet you hadn't modified the little V6 you had, so if you were to modify the V6 in an Alpine, you can imagine how much better it would perform.

If someone wants to keep the old four cylinder, I'm all for that. What I think is a waste however, is all the money and effort, because you just can't get the old engine to produce a lot of reliable horse power. Now you purists, please don't get all riled up, It is just a fact.

I liked Andrew Zizzo's post the other day, when he said he wanted to get a ride in Jim's V6 Alpine, so he could better understand what the Dark Side is all about. I really think that in order to really appreciate what a V6 Alpine is, you need to drive one for a while.

Jose:)
 

Jim E

Donation Time
My stock rod four with V head/3 angle valve job, KB cam/Isky lifters, Crane HI6 triggered by a Pertronix, lightened rockers, lightened flywheel, 40 DCOEs oh and what ever else I could think of when I built it made 80 hp/80ftlbs at the wheels on one of the 5.0 dynos. This was doing third gear pulls. Car was a nice mover and would surprise you how well it pulled across the RPM range. I believe it would have pulled hard right up to the point it spewed its guts which is why I ran a rev limiter set on 6500 or there abouts.

[the one thing the dyno pull made me wonder was about the factory HP ratings and what the stock Alppine is really putting to the ground... maybe 45-50 hp?]

Jim Stones Chevy rod engine is a nice one too, very crisp with what feels like a nice flat torque curve. I only ever drove it with the down draft weber, but even then it was a very nice mover!

Perhaps my favorite Alpine 4 I ever built was one with the V head, KB cam running side draft 150s. Not as snappy as the engine with the 40s or Jim S' chevy rod motor but a nice package.

Then there is Jan's version of the chevy rod motor where he used flattop pistons and destroked the crank. [as I recall] Now that motor really had a lot of torque and IMO is one of the best thought out versions of the chevy rod engine.

The one thing about the Chevy rod motors where you use an Alpine piston is the small end of the rod. You hone it to float the Alpine wrist pin and run it with no bushing. Only time will tell how long that will last. The thing to do would be order a custom piston that carries the Chevy wrist pin.

All fun motors all will make your Alpine a nice mover but they none compare to the car with a V6. Nope it is not original and if you want original that is cool but I am here to tell you the V6 cars are a blast to drive and will flat out haul butt. You would be surprised at the big money cars that have pimped me off and got a view of the fins.

Anyway you want a stock motor car or a V6 car or rotary or other four it is your choice, of course. This series on the V6 conversion is not meant to cause hate and discontent but to show what it takes to do the conversion. Perhaps when some folks see the scope of work involved they will turn away from the conversion thus saving grief and failed projects then it may help some to finish their conversion a little faster and maybe cheaper. Make no mistake it is work to do the conversion and costs money but then the same can be said for a building one of the hi-po fours or just making an Alpine a driver. Heck I think we are all a little nuts to be playing with these cars but I like it!
 

dmich2

Donation Time
That is so cool Jim. It's funny, I was just thinking about such a project, but mine included production of a CD with photos. Might be difficult, what with obtaining a Alpine project car, the parts and oh yeah......The MONEY to accomplish the conversion.:D Maybe there are enough photos of member's
V6 conversions to compile one.

Keep up the good work.

Dennis
 

Jim E

Donation Time
Dennis,
We can have a CD of this in the end and the follow on pieces in the series will have pictures. I took a pretty good bunch of pictures when I converted my S3 and I have pictures of my SV and have pictures that folks have sent me of various stages of the conversion and such. Still anyone have pictures of their build send them along it is always nice to have multipe images to choose from.
 

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
My turn. First, let me say that I love my Chevy Rod Engine! For those who didn't get the Marque article I wrote on it, it is a fairly moderate step up from stock. Chevy rods, +60 pistons, Vizard head and lightened flywheel. Combined with an OD transmission and 3.89 rear end, I have a car that is much more fun to drive in town and will cruise on the highway at 75-80 all day long. Plus, as I learned when Jim E took it out for a spin a few years ago, it will really move if you step on it. It doesn't cost much more to do all of this than a stock rebuild, and it is definitely something I recommend. Since these modifications also have the benefit of being completely internal, it is also the way I'd go if I had a numbers-matching car.

Now, all that said, I also have to admit that almost from the moment I finished the engine I regretted not doing a few more tweaks to get more power, and I'm really not that aggressive a driver. Custom pistons and an offset grind would have really helped...and so it goes. Which is why my second Alpine is going to be a V6. And why I am adding my voice to the many who have already thanked Jim for writing his "how to" series of articles. I like my Chevy Rod Alpine infinitely more then my stock Alpine; I fully expect to like my V6 Alpine infinetly more than my Chevy Rod one!
 

AlpineII

Donation Time
I have also spent a bit of money doing similar upgrades to the four banger in my Series II. Vizard mod, lightened flywheel, KB grind on the cam, balanced and polished crank, rebuilt lifters, O/D with the 3.89 rear, etc. However the attraction of the V6 has been calling me since I started to read the postings a couple of years ago. Took me a while to acquire one, but I have a Series 3 that will be my next project and it will be built with the 2.8 V6. I am in the procees of acquiring the necessary parts and am looking forward to Jim's next article in this series.
 

Jim E

Donation Time
Jim S. Your car is bad! and a hoot to drive!
Thanks for letting me flog it.

The next installment is done and back from my editor....
 

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
V6 rambling

Seems I just need to add my 2 cents worth
25 years of fun with our 62 V6
I have received a few emails asking to post something about my history with a V6 Alpine.We have to go back to spring 1979 when I picked up a real nice straight body missing the power train and interior.We already had a stock 63 GT and a stock 67 Seies 5 so I wondered what was I going to do with this 62.Wouldn't one of those little V6's fit.I mentioned this to a friend who was a ford nut.Hey I got one of those Capri 6's with a tranny and its yours but the motor needs to be done.Well you know what that is.soon it was bored,heads planed,larger valves.ports open to gasket size and polished.Next an offenhauser manifold and oops it now need to be shaved a bit. A holley 4 barre,mallroy dual breaker and MSD ignition.motor mounts made etc.At this time I also figured out the pull slave cylinder which all of you are now using.Glad it works.Dual exhaust of course.Now more ideas in the form of why not an easy to get parts for car.This led to an all ford suspension and 8 inch rear end but thats another story.
Its late fall and we have the car out.When we first let the engine out,WOW!!We now had a sports car .The V6 transformed the Alpine into a performance car that was able to hold its own.We put some miles on it before the cold forced us to put it away.Spring 1980 and we made excuses just to be able to drive it.Now longer and longer trips were being made.After our first 3000 mile trip my wife finally believed it was a reliable car and was quite willing to travel far with it.Did I mention it had Mustang seats which are a heck of a lot better than the stock seats.Heck we did 30 hours in the car which of course included pit stops and food stops.One thing while travelling alone was we met so many people who I guess were not intimidated with a group.We even ended staying at people's houses overnight with whom we met just hours before.This is one thing that the car has done for us because everyone is sure interested in it and all want to see the engine compartment there were many trips made and this car took us to suni 1 and 2.That was a lot of fun back then
I met people who I knew but not face to face.The list is endless.After I got back from Suni 2 we loaded up next day and headed west
We made some trips west as we have friends in British Columbia.Took in afew Ralley in the Valley in Penticton.Hooked up with some of the sunbeamers from the USA and some I had met before at the Sunis.
In 2004 we went west again in the 62.This time however ther car just didn't seem to have the oomph in the mountains.Still it was the good old reliable 62 and never let us down.Once hack into the foothills and prairies on the way home it made up as we were averaging 75 MPH. but I knew the motor was tired.I drove it to fall and it went into the shop for a complete redo after 177000 miles.It is just about finished and waiting for spring
I still think of all the friends we met and the happy miles we had for 25 years with this V6.This has been the most fun and reliable car that we had.Mind you I did replace the clutch and did the carb over.Other than that and maintenance it has been troule freefor all 25 years.
I do hope all you V6 converts will enjoy your car as much as we have.
It has been said we belong to the dark side.I always thought we were lighting the way.
Remember
Enjoy today as we don't know what tomorrow will bring
Foot note
I was kind of dissapointed in the 62 as I was aiming for 250000 miles
 
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