Trunk panels

[mikephillips]

Unlike the Cobra where he actually worked on the garage floor, Shelby turned development of the prototype and the race car over to members of his company staff. So really, other than getting some money and appearing in some ads, his direct involvement was minimal.

 

[65beam]

panels

howard,
this is the correct location for the flame trap. my hose is a cut down series 5 that hooks to my air filter. the series 4 hooked to the right side of the carb,so the flame trap set farther forward . the series 5 had the heater valve located on the left scuttle brace.the hose ran behind the brake fluid reservoir.mine is correct. the only differences between this car and a totally stock series 5 is the weber and it has full carpets.i believe in detailing everything,it's numbers matching,has a lot if hidden details and is kept very clean.as i said before,it has a lot of details including fan belt,oil filter, right date coded wheels,etc. this restoration was done in 1995.

 

[John Boggis]

Just questions... our club concourse is this weekend.. a shabby original car wont win.. but a non stock one will struggle too.

Well Michael what won what...and have you any pictures ??

 

[alpine_64]

"Um.. well a car with Shelby involvement.. minimal as it really was "

I supose its a matter of degree of Shelby's involvement. Shelby produced the first prototype ($8,000), first race car (and raced it with some success), he was featured in advertisement and was paid a royalty of $5 per car. With over 7,000 cars made that comes to more than $35,000. The only thing he didn't do was to build them. To me that seems more than minimal involvement.


I must be missing the point of this forum. Isn't this forum to discuss what is factory original such as parts, markings, paint and the like? I keep on reading comments disparaging cars kept as original as possible.

hey Dude (sorry forget your actual name) im a proud tiger owner.. and have discussed this in other venues.. but.. shelby's actual involvement is well documented.. i think a lot of tiger guys make more out of it than it was to try and increase the value of the cars.. the "shelby glow".. as i have also said in the past.. the "SUNBEAM" name actually has more pedigree than "shelby" sunbeams were advanced grand prix winning cars.. shelby cars are always stock cars with larger motors (hot rods for want of a better word) .. anyway.. send me an email via the forum and ill send you some stuff you will like.

 

[alpine_64]

Well Michael what won what...and have you any pictures ??

I'm not sure who won.. but apparently the club concourse became a "show and shine" on the day.. interestingly we did have a legitimate concourse contending car attend.. infact i brought it. A fellow member who has very rigourously restored his S3ST was unable to attened due to other commitments so i offered to take the car for him.. I had the privilage of driving the car there.. and what an interesting experience.. very different to my modifed alpine.. a factory car has a quaint original charm. I also had a friend drive my tiger down.. first time i have let soneone drive it without me in the car... and murphys law.. an incident.. sigh.. anyway..

Results will be announced later.. now while the event was moved from originality to shiney.. i still think the S3 was a contender.. though there was heavy interference with the judging after the examinations by a prominent member of the Sunbeam club.. i overheard a 10 minute conversation with the judges while this person appealed for them not to award it to the S3 as the owner had not driven it down, had won so many previous events and this person stated if they had to award the trophy to that winner they would make an issue of it.. all a bit sad really...

anyway.. some pics

the rightful concourse winner for the club:
http://community.webshots.com/album/574790563PmgCfH





the rest of us mupets:
http://community.webshots.com/album/574778843GyKTnP

 

[buckalpine3]

Were the soft top boots the same color as car interior?
Dave

 

[alpine_64]

Were the soft top boots the same color as car interior?
Dave

If by soft top boots you mean the soft covers used on the SV.. they were black vynil, on the SI-IV the metal covers were body coloured.

As for "incorrect" parts on the car.. the soft top is an amco and does not have the grey headling, the soft top frame has the velcro.. not the tension cables.. i think the grey on the soft top frame is a little dark.. but im not 100% sure if the shade changed during series.

 

[agmason]

"Unlike the Cobra where he actually worked on the garage floor, Shelby turned development of the prototype and the race car over to members of his company staff. So really, other than getting some money and appearing in some ads, his direct involvement was minimal."


So according to you, Shelby worked on the floor turning wrenches with the hired help? I've seen alot of photos and always the workers were turning wrenches, never Shelby himself. Shelby was the CEO of his company and would be too busy to mount tires, add parts, paint cars, etc. Who do you think developed the Mustang and Cobra? Read some books and you will find he didn't develop anything other than the first Cobra. You may not know but from 1968 on, Shelby didn't even build the Mustangs with his name on them. A.O. Smith of Ionia, Michigan built them. Like I said, its a matter of degree and I showed Shelby's involvement is more than minimal.




"shelby's actual involvement is well documented.. i think a lot of tiger guys make more out of it than it was to try and increase the value of the cars.. the "shelby glow".. as i have also said in the past.. the "SUNBEAM" name actually has more pedigree than "shelby" sunbeams were advanced grand prix winning cars.. shelby cars are always stock cars with larger motors (hot rods for want of a better word)"

Funny you bring up the pedigree of Sunbeam. I recently bought a book published by Haynes in the UK that lays out the claim that AC is mostly forgotten for the success of the Cobra. The AC Ace had a successful racing career befroe the Cobra. According to the author, AC deserves equal billing if not more for the success of the Cobra.

I'm not trying to increase the value of my car, I'm just laying out the facts. You will believe what you want, inspite of the facts.

 

[howard]

You guys amaze me! I'm sitting here in my office looking at these FABULOUS Alpines, thinking to myself, "Geez, I wish I could get my horn to work..." Not only does this forum offer me inspiration, it keeps me humble. I see I have much to learn.

 

[John Boggis]

anyway.. some pics

the rightful concourse winner for the club:
http://community.webshots.com/album/574790563PmgCfH





the rest of us mupets:
http://community.webshots.com/album/574778843GyKTnP

Michael... Now that is a great looking car and quite close to factory spec... one of the best Alpines I have seen on this forum. Maybe a bit to shiny ? though could be the pics... and tell the owner to take that chrome fake Lucas label off the coil...they were never on Alpines !

 

[65beam]

panels

i guess you could say rootes was pretty cheap at that time. wonder how much money they saved by deleting the decal? john,does your car still have the original tie down rings that were used for shipping ? since it is such a low mileage car,what shape are the frame corks ? just curious.they are a very overlooked item.

 

[alpine_64]

"Unlike the Cobra where he actually worked on the garage floor, Shelby turned development of the prototype and the race car over to members of his company staff. So really, other than getting some money and appearing in some ads, his direct involvement was minimal."


So according to you, Shelby worked on the floor turning wrenches with the hired help? I've seen alot of photos and always the workers were turning wrenches, never Shelby himself. Shelby was the CEO of his company and would be too busy to mount tires, add parts, paint cars, etc. Who do you think developed the Mustang and Cobra? Read some books and you will find he didn't develop anything other than the first Cobra. You may not know but from 1968 on, Shelby didn't even build the Mustangs with his name on them. A.O. Smith of Ionia, Michigan built them. Like I said, its a matter of degree and I showed Shelby's involvement is more than minimal.




"shelby's actual involvement is well documented.. i think a lot of tiger guys make more out of it than it was to try and increase the value of the cars.. the "shelby glow".. as i have also said in the past.. the "SUNBEAM" name actually has more pedigree than "shelby" sunbeams were advanced grand prix winning cars.. shelby cars are always stock cars with larger motors (hot rods for want of a better word)"

Funny you bring up the pedigree of Sunbeam. I recently bought a book published by Haynes in the UK that lays out the claim that AC is mostly forgotten for the success of the Cobra. The AC Ace had a successful racing career befroe the Cobra. According to the author, AC deserves equal billing if not more for the success of the Cobra.

I'm not trying to increase the value of my car, I'm just laying out the facts. You will believe what you want, inspite of the facts.

Dude..

I never questioned the pedigree of AC.. i just said Sunbeam has a lot more pedigree than "shelby" and what you say about AC probably backs me.. shelby jammed big motors in other peoples cars.. hot rods.

Now you say i will believe what i want despite the facts.. well mate.. get yours right.

the FIRST prototype that ran was by Ken Miles.. so thats technically the first Tiger prototype, even though not the one that production was based on.

Shelby pitched at the prototype and offered to actually build the tiger for rootes.. that didnt happen.. had it happened, then yes they would be a shelby product.

You say Shelby appeared in the ads as some sort of justification.. well that helped him sell his after market bits, helped rootes build an image for the car.. shelby was paid (the thing he likes most) to do marketing.. and really aimed at the USA not the rest of the world... Shelby also sold rebranded cobra/ford bits so yes he was always gogin to have an association. Also Art alfons appeared in the ads for tigers too.. did that make him a creator of the car? Brabham apeared in the alpine ads.. maybe he made the alpine? and given brabham was one of the guys who suggested an engine transplant.. maybe they should be a brabham tiger?

Im not saying the shelby motor company didnt have a part to play in the tiger.. im just saying that good ol CS didnt play much of a roll in it himself, and you seem to think it was a big part..

you believe what you want despite the facts.. Im not denying his involvemnt.. im just saying i'm sick of people trying to basically claim to own "shelby tigers" .. and before you rebutt.. i know you didnt say that directly. Shelby for a few bucks will let you join his tiger register and probably even sign your dash.. but im geussing good old CS wouldnt know a real tiger from a hot rod alpine.

 

[alpine_64]

Michael... Now that is a great looking car and quite close to factory spec... one of the best Alpines I have seen on this forum. Maybe a bit to shiny ? though could be the pics... and tell the owner to take that chrome fake Lucas label off the coil...they were never on Alpines !

John,

Its not to shiney... how graham can resist polishing the rocker cover and manifolds etc.. hes to commited to originality for me!

I should explain the history of this car brefily...

it was not orignially restored to be a "factory spec" concourse car.. when first complete it had quite a few deviations weber, modern leads, normal hose clamps etc.. but after graham decided to then undo much of his work and put it back to stock.. Now things like the soft top and frame are annoying.. had he decided to do a stock car from the start he would not have used a SV item.. and i know he is looking at ammending things still.. also.. this restoration was very extensive.. most people would have scrapped the car.. it had been badly damaged, heavily rusted out etc.. graham spent 10 years rebuilding it.. finding missing parts.. and often having to have parts fabricated as at the time they were not available... he should be comended for his efforts.. i spoke to him about the events of the day and said.. if they do decide to scrap the originality component he should look at borrowing a few parts from me.. a nice set of DCOEs would liven the car up.. and he could always unbolt them.. but as we know.. once we take parts off.. they often dont go back on..

thanks to graham for letting me drive an alpine as it should be... not like my period boy racer job

 

[John Boggis]

john,does your car still have the original tie down rings that were used for shipping ? since it is such a low mileage car,what shape are the frame corks ? just curious.they are a very overlooked item.

Well Bob, The tubes in the engine bay( if that's what you mean) have something down them ! Can't tell if it's cork as it is about 3/8 " down the tube...It's soft and dark brown colour but without digging it out i can't tell.

I don't know what tie down rings look like ! maybe you can help ?

As my car has never lived more than 30 miles from the factory where it was built in 1964 you can see why i have never looked for parts for shipping !!

 

[65beam]

panels

john,
when the cars were shipped, they had to have a way to tie them down during shipping. when they were delivered to dealers, they had rings attached to the rear axle to fasten the chains to during shipping. todays cars have tie down attachments welded to the chassis. a friend of ours in ohio took these tie down hooks off the cars for the local dealer.he remembers them being bolted on. since my cars are trailered all over the states, i had rings welded to the rear spring plates of one car in order to tie it down easier. doug and i were discussing this a few days ago and he can't remember too much about the rings. i thought maybe your car might have them since you are so close to where it was built and may not have been shipped like other cars were. as far as the corks, they are in the holes visible on the frame rails. this is where one crossmember bolt shows. my green car had them visible until it was repainted many years ago.the red harrington also had them,but again painted over when i bought the car in 1983.i do have them reinstalled on all of my restored cars, but would like to see what they look like on a car such as yours. as we get older memories of things like this tend to become cloudy. i blame it on old timers disease.

 

[John Boggis]

Bob...I think the tie down rings must be an export thing. I have never seen any rings on a UK car.

As far as the corks are concerned...yes they were inserted at the factory to cover the bolts and I can see mine although they look very dirty. I think this is one of those items that only the most serious of restorations would be bothered with.

 

[65beam]

panels

john,
i have replaced them on all of the cars that i have restored. i just thought you might be able to show us a photo of yours. this is just one of the many hidden things on my in depth restorations.

 

[John Boggis]

Bob, my car is in it's air chamber greased up for winter storage... but I'll take a picture when I'm next working on it.

What I find strange about the restoration of your series V is that you go into extreme detail like the protective corks fitted at the factory but then leave out a major detail like no speaker box under your radio or not painting the hinge bolts inside your trunk.

Also if you are into so much detail why fit carpets to an ST and in your engine bay fit a non standard carb and coil.

Bob, I am not having a go at your car it's a great Alpine... my question is why have you not restored it completly factory when it is obvious that detail on your cars is important to you.

 

[65beam]

panels

john,
the car actually belongs to me. it is the way i want it. it has had several hidden upgrades done to it to make it a much better car than original,but is still very close to stock. i take great pride in all of my vehicles. i do not tolerate second rate work,nor do i want an all original car with old paint and interior. it's just not me. we recently restored a low mileage all original car that had been stored since 1973. it got a bare metal restoration and a new interior done our way. our current restoration will lean more towards the personalised side. i believe that may be hard for you to understand but that is what we decided to do. without a doubt it will be a show winner also just as my series 5 is.

jean webb
(bob's wife )

 

[John Boggis]

john,
the car actually belongs to me. it is the way i want it. it has had several hidden upgrades done to it to make it a much better car than original,but is still very close to stock. i take great pride in all of my vehicles. i do not tolerate second rate work,nor do i want an all original car with old paint and interior. it's just not me. we recently restored a low mileage all original car that had been stored since 1973. it got a bare metal restoration and a new interior done our way. our current restoration will lean more towards the personalised side. i believe that may be hard for you to understand but that is what we decided to do. without a doubt it will be a show winner also just as my series 5 is.

jean webb
(bob's wife )

Jean,

I think you and Bob are not quite clear on what this part of the forum is trying achieve. As the title of this part of the forum says.. FACTORY ORIGINAL...how did it originally come from the factory. So It's not how you like your Alpine to look or about hidden upgrades , personalising individual items ,fitting non standard parts or even reaching concours standards.

It's just about keeping it factory. This part of the forum is for folks that want there Alpines to be as they came out of the factory or who are interested in how the cars were built when new.

From your comments above I think you fit into the modified section for your new build and really with all the non original parts and upgrades your Series V fits into modified aswell.

To give an example of people on the wrong area of this forum this thread was stated by Sunbeam74 asking where he could get some pressboard trunk panels... the same material as the originals...a perfect question for this part of the forum...but what followed were people trying to give him advice on using plastic boards !! which he had already stated he did not want !
and are certainly not factory.