John Boggis
Donation Time
Can't find your pics so can you post some detailed pics of your wifes car as would like to see what standard wins a concours in your part of the world.
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Trunk panels
- Thread starter sunbeam74
- Start date
Can't find your pics so can you post some detailed pics of your wifes car as would like to see what standard wins a concours in your part of the world.
"We also have some cars in our club that win concourse year after year which are not factory original, but still bring home the trophies consistently."
Those type of shows are known as "show and shines" and rarely will a factory correct car ever win. Nothing wrong with that type of show but its not a true concours type of show. If you ever hang out with judges at a concours show they get very specific on what is considered "factory" and what isn 't. If the Sunbeam world had one you should be able to pick up judging forms with what the judges are looking for.
Beam - I understand you 100%.
Those type of shows are known as "show and shines" and rarely will a factory correct car ever win. Nothing wrong with that type of show but its not a true concours type of show. If you ever hang out with judges at a concours show they get very specific on what is considered "factory" and what isn 't. If the Sunbeam world had one you should be able to pick up judging forms with what the judges are looking for.
Beam - I understand you 100%.
65beam
Donation Time
panels
michael,
one of the things about this car that i take great pride in is the amount of nos parts on it. the over rider rubbers, the hub caps, trim rings,the grill bars,center badge and holder, eyebrow moulding, all the lenses,the horn ring, steering ring center,sunvisor mounts,the light on the rearview mirror, turn signal switch, dimmer switch, steering wheel, rootes/chrysler oil filter,correct number rootes/chrysler fan belt, all the correct hose clamps including the ones on the booster hoses,flame trap, heater valve, steering cross tube, trunk hinges, door handles,1725 badges, door window outer seal, correct tool kit in an nos tool roll,etc. i also have the correct lucas head lamps.i also have matching numbers on the chassis and engine. correct date code on all five wheels,and a set of plug wires that cover the plug tubes. these are lucas from the late sixties. even the rear brake shoes were rootes /chrysler. the list of parts polished and rechromed is extensive .this car also has all it's original body panels since it was a rust free california car. no patch panels ! keep in mind also that this car was restored 15 years ago. i still have an extensive stock of nos parts and will use some on the car we are now restoring . go to the section concerning the sos this past week and click on post #100 and watch the photos. it's the midnight blue car.
michael,
one of the things about this car that i take great pride in is the amount of nos parts on it. the over rider rubbers, the hub caps, trim rings,the grill bars,center badge and holder, eyebrow moulding, all the lenses,the horn ring, steering ring center,sunvisor mounts,the light on the rearview mirror, turn signal switch, dimmer switch, steering wheel, rootes/chrysler oil filter,correct number rootes/chrysler fan belt, all the correct hose clamps including the ones on the booster hoses,flame trap, heater valve, steering cross tube, trunk hinges, door handles,1725 badges, door window outer seal, correct tool kit in an nos tool roll,etc. i also have the correct lucas head lamps.i also have matching numbers on the chassis and engine. correct date code on all five wheels,and a set of plug wires that cover the plug tubes. these are lucas from the late sixties. even the rear brake shoes were rootes /chrysler. the list of parts polished and rechromed is extensive .this car also has all it's original body panels since it was a rust free california car. no patch panels ! keep in mind also that this car was restored 15 years ago. i still have an extensive stock of nos parts and will use some on the car we are now restoring . go to the section concerning the sos this past week and click on post #100 and watch the photos. it's the midnight blue car.
Sownman
Donation Time
"We also have some cars in our club that win concourse year after year which are not factory original, but still bring home the trophies consistently."
Those type of shows are known as "show and shines" and rarely will a factory correct car ever win. Nothing wrong with that type of show but its not a true concours type of show. If you ever hang out with judges at a concours show they get very specific on what is considered "factory" and what isn 't. If the Sunbeam world had one you should be able to pick up judging forms with what the judges are looking for.
Beam - I understand you 100%.
I went to a local car club show last night, just because I think it's important to keep Rootes cars in the public eye rather than only going to Brit or Sunbeam events. At any rate there was anAnglia hot rod and my Tiger (very but not yet completely correct) amount a sea of Mustangs GTO's Chevelles rat rods etc. They gave out a Best Foreign/Spec interest trophy, but they gave it to a Ford Woody. Even more absurd was their Best 60's/70's Award.
They gave that to a replicobra. A car not built in the 60's or 70's and not even an original anything. I didn't go for a trophy but found it insulting that no judge even looked at my car. They quite obviously have no interest in anything foreign nor in anythging but shiney paint/chrome/engine mods.
Steve
SIVAllan
Gold Level Sponsor
Giving the award to a replicar would make me toss my cookies (if possible onto the judges).
Perhaps US concours judges are dumbing down.
OTOH NOS has a role to play, but I'm uninterested in any criteria that does not reward factory original, clean wear and tear appreciated.
I'd also like to see a premium placed on cars driven to a show.
Driveability is a key component of factory original in my view.
Insofar as I am concerned, a Sunbeam with factory correct appearance that is untrustworthy to drive to the show should have points deducted.
Allan
Perhaps US concours judges are dumbing down.
OTOH NOS has a role to play, but I'm uninterested in any criteria that does not reward factory original, clean wear and tear appreciated.
I'd also like to see a premium placed on cars driven to a show.
Driveability is a key component of factory original in my view.
Insofar as I am concerned, a Sunbeam with factory correct appearance that is untrustworthy to drive to the show should have points deducted.
Allan
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
I agree. In fact, if it were me, I probably would have lodged a protest. This sort of thing really hurts the hobby. Argue all you like about safety mods, NOS vs NOS-like replacements, different carbs, etc... at least they're the real cars. This is just beyond the pale.
Alpine Bob
Donation Time
I went to a local show a few months ago. I was in the "Foreign" Class, with a VW Bug, a MGB, and a couple of the rice burners, with the coffee can size tail pipe extensions and the doos that open from a hinge that pivets the door up and the color of this smiley . I think it was a newer honda. Well the honda won. Alot of you know, I have a very nice looking Series IV. Well, needless to say I've never been back to that show when a modern ricer burner that's been customized competes with with classic antiques
John Boggis
Donation Time
Well here in the UK most of our classic car shows are run in a much more organised fashion with most concours events being scored by knowledgable judges.
My Alpine has won three best in show awards this year....the last show see www.maxeycarshow.co.uk was judged by the staff of classic car weekly.
My Alpine has won three best in show awards this year....the last show see www.maxeycarshow.co.uk was judged by the staff of classic car weekly.
mikephillips
Donation Time
Having volunteer judged for TEAE here in the US I can say that their standards, even in stock class tend to weigh more towards fit and finish rather than true stock appearance. Having to rate, say an interior for example, only on a scale of 1 to 5 with only basic questions of stock or not, limits your ability to truely determine who is more correct or less. And at that they cannot always agree over what's better. Part of the problem of course is newer owners and in Tigers in particular, the history of modifications dating back to the 60s leaving many with no idea as to what's really stock. Many have modern beautiful paint work for example, where mine has a more 60's look, which is duller and would lose next to a 10 foot deep finish.
Bob will agree with me that Jean's car will almost always lose the award for overall best to that shiny, overly chromed, nonstock interior and engine compartment Tiger, because of the "cool looking" factor regardless of which is the better representative of the as built Sunbeam.
Bob will agree with me that Jean's car will almost always lose the award for overall best to that shiny, overly chromed, nonstock interior and engine compartment Tiger, because of the "cool looking" factor regardless of which is the better representative of the as built Sunbeam.
Amen, and explains why we abandoned the idea of true concours judging from the very beginning of the club. Many of us are not in it for the trophy, we just want to enjoy the company of fellow Sunbeam / Rootes enthusiasts and DRIVE OUR CARS.
Sownman
Donation Time
It was strange to see a non 60's/70's replicar be given the best award. Still stranger is that my Tiger was the only real Shelby car.
As I hope I said I don't go for trophies but any show should at least be honest and true to it's own categories. How a Ford woodie can win best foreign and a 90's built replica can win best 60/70's car is reason enough to know I don't care to associate with that car club again.
Steve
65beam
Donation Time
mike,
jean's car has beat out tigers twice in the last two years in two popular vote shows. surprised us! the really funny thing that happened this year was at the pittsburgh show. we took the 69 and it has an early alpine valve cover on it.i had a guy walk up to me and ask why i put a sunbeam motor in the car. i told him it was a sunbeam. he pointed to the tiger next to me and said that was a sunbeam and another sunbeam was the green alpine next to the tiger.he continued to say that the 69 was not a sunbeam.i walked away. ignorance says it all.
jean's car has beat out tigers twice in the last two years in two popular vote shows. surprised us! the really funny thing that happened this year was at the pittsburgh show. we took the 69 and it has an early alpine valve cover on it.i had a guy walk up to me and ask why i put a sunbeam motor in the car. i told him it was a sunbeam. he pointed to the tiger next to me and said that was a sunbeam and another sunbeam was the green alpine next to the tiger.he continued to say that the 69 was not a sunbeam.i walked away. ignorance says it all.
alpine_64
Donation Time
65beam
Donation Time
panels
john boggis,
i posted some photos of the wife's series 5 on photobucket.
http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/tt142/65beam
john boggis,
i posted some photos of the wife's series 5 on photobucket.
http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/tt142/65beam
alpine_64
Donation Time
I only saw 1 photo.. and your missing the front left corner.. come on.. where are the sweet revealing detail shots.. ??
Lift the bonnet, show us her undercarrige.. oh its all getting a little naughty.. whats the shape of her trunk like?
"Um.. well a car with Shelby involvement.. minimal as it really was "
I supose its a matter of degree of Shelby's involvement. Shelby produced the first prototype ($8,000), first race car (and raced it with some success), he was featured in advertisement and was paid a royalty of $5 per car. With over 7,000 cars made that comes to more than $35,000. The only thing he didn't do was to build them. To me that seems more than minimal involvement.
I must be missing the point of this forum. Isn't this forum to discuss what is factory original such as parts, markings, paint and the like? I keep on reading comments disparaging cars kept as original as possible.
I supose its a matter of degree of Shelby's involvement. Shelby produced the first prototype ($8,000), first race car (and raced it with some success), he was featured in advertisement and was paid a royalty of $5 per car. With over 7,000 cars made that comes to more than $35,000. The only thing he didn't do was to build them. To me that seems more than minimal involvement.
I must be missing the point of this forum. Isn't this forum to discuss what is factory original such as parts, markings, paint and the like? I keep on reading comments disparaging cars kept as original as possible.
Great looking car! Two questions, since I'm not familiar with the SV- is that the proper placement of the flame trap? (Better location than on my SIV... I may have to adopt this.) Is that the heater hose on the strut next to the carb? Mine's on the other side.
May not win any Brit concours events, but you can park that in my driveway any day! VERY nice!
May not win any Brit concours events, but you can park that in my driveway any day! VERY nice!