Over here in the UK we have Millboard, at £12 for a sheet 5' x 4'
http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/p-1648-millboard.aspx
Pete
http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/p-1648-millboard.aspx
Pete
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Trunk panels
- Thread starter sunbeam74
- Start date
I know that existed here years ago. I remember seeing 4' square pieces of it in a local hardware store shortly after I bought my car in 1977. I was going to buy some to make new trunk panels but decided to wait to focus on other things first. I've never seen it again!
65beam
Donation Time
there are a lot of hidden details that are not on most restored cars including having the right date coded wheels. having the stickers on the inside of the trunk panels would be something that would never be a judging point.just as they would never pull your hubcaps to check for the date code. having had cars entered in many concourse events, i can tell you that judges are not going to pull panels to check the back of them. the judges look for detail work such as panel gaps,body and paint quality,and detailing in general.they would probably deduct points for the condition of original trunk panels. originality is good but when it takes away from quality,it hurts you in the end.
"having the stickers on the inside of the trunk panels would be something that would never be a judging point.just as they would never pull your hubcaps to check for the date code. having had cars entered in many concourse events, i can tell you that judges are not going to pull panels to check the back of them. the judges look for detail work such as panel gaps,body and paint quality,and detailing in general.they would probably deduct points for the condition of original trunk panels. originality is good but when it takes away from quality,it hurts you in the end."
I can see you never entered a true concours or even bothered to talk to a judge of one. You are wrong when you say they never check on date codes, stickers and the like. I suggest you pick up a NPD catalog and read it. In it, you will find parts that have correct date code markings for concours judging. Also, if you read some of the literature for judging you will find correct paint stampings, crayon markings, factory overspray and the like. This is known as "factory original" and restoring a car to better than "factory original" will hurt you in the end.
I can see you never entered a true concours or even bothered to talk to a judge of one. You are wrong when you say they never check on date codes, stickers and the like. I suggest you pick up a NPD catalog and read it. In it, you will find parts that have correct date code markings for concours judging. Also, if you read some of the literature for judging you will find correct paint stampings, crayon markings, factory overspray and the like. This is known as "factory original" and restoring a car to better than "factory original" will hurt you in the end.
tony perrett
Gold Level Sponsor
When we lose sleep over things such as crayon markings and factory overspray we are in danger of forgetting the reasons why we run these old cars. I gave up entering Concours Events after seeing one guy cleaning his tyre treads with a toothbrush and boot polish and another polishing the inside of the tailpipe.
And it can backfire on you. I know one guy that spent a morning with a bucket of soapy water and scrub brush under a 55 Chevy he had driven 300 miles to a car show. The judges decided he trailered it in and disqualified him. That took some steam out of his desire to enter car shows.
Bill
Well, no one forces anybody to enter a concours type car show. There are plenty of "show and shines" to enter and who knows, you may even win a trophy or two with perfect paint and close panel gaps and beat the factory perfect car. It all depends on what you want to do with your car. I guess the next question to ask is, what is the point of this particular forum? Its named "Factory Original, How did it originally come from the factory? Discussions for the purists." If you are not interested in factory stickers or crayon markings then why post on this forum?
Over the years I have definitely evolved from being the guy losing sleep over factory markings to not caring one bit about it. I'm having much more fun driving my car and not worrying about dirt and bugs. I put over 1,000 miles on my Alpine this past weekend and didn't bother with cleaning up the car. It was a badge of honor to show that I drove the car to the car show!
Nothing wrong with others who fill their trunks with cleaning supplies for when they arrive at the car show, but I just like parking my car and walking around to see the other cars - not spending the next hour or two fussing over the dirt and bugs. I'm definitely not in it for the trophies. In fact, my favorite car this past weekend at the show was a dirty Austin-Healey 100/4 that the owner REFUSES to clean because he just likes to drive it. Great car with great patina.
Nothing wrong with others who fill their trunks with cleaning supplies for when they arrive at the car show, but I just like parking my car and walking around to see the other cars - not spending the next hour or two fussing over the dirt and bugs. I'm definitely not in it for the trophies. In fact, my favorite car this past weekend at the show was a dirty Austin-Healey 100/4 that the owner REFUSES to clean because he just likes to drive it. Great car with great patina.
I have also driven long distances to shows. I prefer to walk around and have fun. Why clean the car when it is only going to get dirty driving home again?
65beam
Donation Time
dude,
i spend a lot of time and put a lot of effort into building our cars. i know all the hidden details and have entered our cars in more judged shows than you could imagine.we're not newbies to this hobby. our series 5 fell two points shy of a perfect score at suni. probably due to our weber.it also took 1st at suni 3 and 4.
i spend a lot of time and put a lot of effort into building our cars. i know all the hidden details and have entered our cars in more judged shows than you could imagine.we're not newbies to this hobby. our series 5 fell two points shy of a perfect score at suni. probably due to our weber.it also took 1st at suni 3 and 4.
alpine_64
Donation Time
Not wanting to start anything here.. i read the scores from Suni.. but only 2 points off perfect and you had a weber (assume down draft on a S3/IV manifold) I cant see how they do the points..
1. Incorect carb (not even sunbeam let alone correct model)
2. incorect manifold for series
3. Incorect throttle linkage
4. Assume incorect air cleaner for a sunbeam.. and series
5. different engine bay hoses.. the stroms have those hoses from the cleaner covers..
thats just off the top of my head.. but whats the scoring system.. how many points do you lose for an incoerrect part? and how many for a non-sunbeam part at all?
Just questions... our club concourse is this weekend.. a shabby original car wont win.. but a non stock one will struggle too.
65beam
Donation Time
panels
dude,
i do share my knowledge. some people just don't listen. and i 'm too busy building another car to take the time to try to educate those people.
michael,
there are many things judged in club concourse events here in the states. the condition of the body, windows, chrome, stainless, engine compartment, undercarriage, interior,lighting,etc. i believe that means they look over the entire car and make sure everything works. they use common sense and class a change of a carb as one change. we also enter the car in other concourse events. this car is just what it is. a high quality,well detailed, no expense spared car. we had a guy from a carolina rod shop stop by as we were loading the car sunday and he commented that we have the best looking paint job that he has seen. count what you want as changes. the fact remains that the members of the sunbeam community have judged this car to be the best stock alpine many times. also keep in mind changes are allowed for roadability.
dude,
i do share my knowledge. some people just don't listen. and i 'm too busy building another car to take the time to try to educate those people.
michael,
there are many things judged in club concourse events here in the states. the condition of the body, windows, chrome, stainless, engine compartment, undercarriage, interior,lighting,etc. i believe that means they look over the entire car and make sure everything works. they use common sense and class a change of a carb as one change. we also enter the car in other concourse events. this car is just what it is. a high quality,well detailed, no expense spared car. we had a guy from a carolina rod shop stop by as we were loading the car sunday and he commented that we have the best looking paint job that he has seen. count what you want as changes. the fact remains that the members of the sunbeam community have judged this car to be the best stock alpine many times. also keep in mind changes are allowed for roadability.
mikephillips
Donation Time
One other thing to keep in mind is that the US Sunbeam crowd doesn't do concours like some other clubs. Corvettes for example, where every marking, color code/strip and was the painter going to the right or left, are way beyond where most Sunbeam people are. It's ok to want to know and want to keep/emulate factory markings, just remember this is a crowd where those things don't count for as much as with others.
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
alpine_64
Donation Time
I have heard how nice your cars are, i was just intregued as to the way they mark it.. i think every club has different opinions as to what weighting is given to stock VS condition.. i mean.. some repro parts are not "factory original" but look original (ie stainless visors mounts, better horn rings etc..) just interested as to how you guys judged it.. we make allowances for safety here..
You can have modern seat belts, radial tyres, etc... and as long as they are matching, no marks lost..
where i s guess it gets interesting.. if you have a 1725 in place of a 1600 here you loose points.. we remove points for non matching numbers.. i guess if engines are counted as 1 thing.. can a V6 loose the same points as an incorrect rootes block? or perhaps a late non sparking tube head instead of the stock heads.. the real problem with concourse is it always puts someones nose out of joint.. be it the super nice non-stock period restored car.. or the super original well presrved survivor
64beam
Donation Time
Hi Michael,
That is why it is better to have two concourse's for original, 'off the factory floor' cars and a non-original class as per the 2008 nationals. It still caused some controversy, but I think it worked quite well. We also have some cars in our club that win concourse year after year which are not factory original, but still bring home the trophies consistently. I could never see a V6 Alpine winning in Australia though (not that there are many).
Regards, Robin.
Jim E
Donation Time
I am with Mike P. on this one. Would think that we have the folks who know the most about what is correct on these cars, as far as the US crowd goes, right here on this site. Have to wonder how much imput they have on a judging sheet and if there is any standard club to club or even show to show. Would seem with out that sort of imput and a good dose of arguments concourse judging is somewhat hollow. We should have posted the judging sheet or what ever it is called right here, don't you think?
Will never forget what a stir SV Dick caused with his unrestored untampered with SV at Dayton, once folks saw past the patina and saw what a nice car it is! Had guys running back and forth across the field to see if they had done it right.
I like looking at "restored" cars at the shows but after a bit I always end up giving the ummm drivers the close once over, Airpine was my favorite Alpine to scope out at the SOS.
Will never forget what a stir SV Dick caused with his unrestored untampered with SV at Dayton, once folks saw past the patina and saw what a nice car it is! Had guys running back and forth across the field to see if they had done it right.
I like looking at "restored" cars at the shows but after a bit I always end up giving the ummm drivers the close once over, Airpine was my favorite Alpine to scope out at the SOS.