V6 Conversion Motor

[V6 JOSE]

Hi PC,

Your list is OK till you mention the transmissions. The pre 1993 T5s, have a shorter input shaft, which then requires a pilot bearing adapter to reach out far enough to support the input shaft. I don´t recommend using an early four cylinder T5, because first gear in them is a bit too low. Several guys are using them, but I prefer the 1996 and later T5 from behind a 3.8 V6 Mustang. My preferance if you are going to drag race it, would be a pre 1994 T5 from a 5.0 V8 Mustang, then run a Ford 8" behind it with a set of 4.11s. The 1979-1993 V8 T5´s have a better selection of ratios for that purpose. I recommend using the Mustang II flywheel, clutch and pressure plate.

The Mustangs from 1974-1978, were called Mustang II´s. After 1979, they were call just Mustang. If you can source a Mustang II with the V6 and a stick, you can use the 2.8 V6 from it and save yourself more money. You don´t need to buy a Ranger engine. The reason I recommend looking for a Ranger engine, is that they are more easily sourced, because of there being many more of them today. The Bronco II engine is exactly like the Ranger one, so can be used too. What you will need from the Ranger/Bronco II engine, is the oil pan, oil pump pick up and the oil filter adapter. You can get a new oil pump pick up from NAPA and not have to clean up an old funky one that may be plugged.

If you buy one of my kits, you will get a set of equal length tubular headers in the kit. You won´t need anything else; besides, there isn´t any room for anything else. The kit is all you need to set the engine and transmission in your Alpine.

Jose

 

[pcmenten]

Transmission confusion

Jose,

I found the source of my confusion. I thought all of the 4 and 6 cylinder engines had the same input shaft. Looks like there were three shaft lengths. I suppose a person could swap the input shaft if they had an earlier transmission and could find the right input shaft to exchange.

Fords
7.18" for V8s until 94
7.85" post 94 V8
7.41" 4s and V6 until 94, then 7.85

Looks like the gear ratios were all over the map, but I think you are right about the later V6 ratios probably being better suited to our application.

Thanks for all your help.

Paul

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Paul,

The input shafts are not interchangeable. There are subtile differences between them.

The V8 transmission after 1994 is a different transmission from the T5. The bellhousing is part of the transmission case and it won´t fit the V6 block, so you are left with either the earlier T5´s, that have the same length input shaft (V8, V6, I4), or the post 1994 V6 T5, which has a longer shaft.

Jose

 

[JDSunbeam]

So I am about to order the Mustang II flywheel but need to know if it's the one of the automatic V8 or the 4 speed V8??

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi John,

You want a flywheel from a 2.8 V6, nothging else. It has to come from a Mustang II with the four speed transmission.

Jose

So I am about to order the Mustang II flywheel but need to know if it's the one of the automatic V8 or the 4 speed V8??

 

[pcmenten]

I got a 2.8 from a 75 Mustang with 4 speed - fan to bellhousing but missing the intake and distributor.

I couldn't help wondering if the bearing retainer from the 4 speed would fit a T5. That would simplify the fitment issue of the transmission.

And a question for Jose; does your kit come with a cam? I had done a little research for a replacement cam and was leaning toward a Comp PN 36-101-4 (grind 244S) or grind a PN 36-240-4 (grind 252S) on a wider LSA for use with EFI.

 

[V6 JOSE]

I don´t know if they will interchange, because the T5 front collar holds the outer race of the front bearing, and I don´t know if the four speed collar serves the same purpose. I have never removed the front collar on a four speed to know.

As for the cam, To get the most out of the port design of these heads, you need a dual pattern cam, to bring the intake and exhaust into a better relationship. Most of the after market cams are single pattern design.

I would recommend asking a fuel injection specialist about if it requires a special grind to work best with it.

Jose

I got a 2.8 from a 75 Mustang with 4 speed - fan to bellhousing but missing the intake and distributor.

I couldn't help wondering if the bearing retainer from the 4 speed would fit a T5. That would simplify the fitment issue of the transmission.

And a question for Jose; does your kit come with a cam? I had done a little research for a replacement cam and was leaning toward a Comp PN 36-101-4 (grind 244S) or grind a PN 36-240-4 (grind 252S) on a wider LSA for use with EFI.

 

[pcmenten]

Wow, quick reply, José. Thank you.

Good info regarding dual-pattern cams. There must be a restriction in either the intake or exhaust system to have to compensate by using a split-pattern cam.

And do you offer a cam with your kit?

In re: EFI cams, it is my well-researched understanding that EFI systems use a wider LSA to create stronger intake manifold pressure (vacuum) signals. Also, wider LSAs make a broader power band and that works well with the more precisely tuned EFI systems. (I love the EEC-IV on my 86 Mustang GT; massive torque and surprising economy - over 27 mpg at 75-80 mph! Yes, it's legal in Idaho/Utah to drive 80. Strangely, the faster I go, the better the mileage.)

I just ordered Pat Gahnal's V6 tuning book.

 

[MikeH]

I got a 2.8 from a 75 Mustang with 4 speed - fan to bellhousing but missing the intake and distributor.

I couldn't help wondering if the bearing retainer from the 4 speed would fit a T5. That would simplify the fitment issue of the transmission.

Trying to use the bearing retainer from the 4-speed isn't simplifying anything. The retainer would still need to be removed from the T5 to swap it, so you might as well just replace it with the 5.0 T5 retainer turned down to the 4-speed retainer size (which would be nice to know).

 

[pcmenten]

Trying to use the bearing retainer from the 4-speed isn't simplifying anything. The retainer would still need to be removed from the T5 to swap it, so you might as well just replace it with the 5.0 T5 retainer turned down to the 4-speed retainer size (which would be nice to know).

You don't think it simplifies anything to exchange the T5 retainer for the T4 retainer? How much does it cost to turn the T5 retainer down to fit the T4 bellhousing?

 

[V6 JOSE]

The 2.8 V6 is more restricted on the intake side, so we hang the intake valve open a little longer. I don´t sell a cam myself, but you can send your cam to Delta Cam in Tacoma, WA. They do a great job and are economical too.

Turning down the o.d. of the front collar is negligible. You only remove about .060". I doubt they would charge more than $15 for that.

Jose

 

[JDSunbeam]

Alright,

Got the Mustang II timing cover and it seems as though the width of it is identical to the Ranger timing cover, only differnce seems to be the thermostat area in the lower right...maybe I didn't get the right timing cover?

Also, I removed the crankshaft pully and on the back it has the yoke that slides into the oil pan (block). The one I recently purchased is just the pulley with no yoke that goes into the block...maybe I didn't get the right one of these either?

Snapped two exhaust manifold bolts...Helicoil, here I come.

 

[kmathis]

I can't answer for the timing cover because I have only seen the Mustang II cover and wouldn't know how to compare; but I can answer for the crank pulley, the one that has the yoke on it is the one you need as it will mate with the seal in the timing cover. An just a side note about that...when you assemble the timing cover to the motor do not tighten the bolts until you have installed the seal in the timing cover and installed the pulley. The pulley yoke will center the cover properly, then tighten the bolts, otherwise you could have an oil leake there at that front seal later.

 

[bulldurham]

The two are different. Mainly that the bypass from the Ranger will not bolt to the Mustang II, and vice versa, as the bolt holes do not align. Be careful when you remove those bolts , especially the long one, as it has a tendency to want to twist if rusted up.

Alright,

Got the Mustang II timing cover and it seems as though the width of it is identical to the Ranger timing cover, only differnce seems to be the thermostat area in the lower right...maybe I didn't get the right timing cover?

Also, I removed the crankshaft pully and on the back it has the yoke that slides into the oil pan (block). The one I recently purchased is just the pulley with no yoke that goes into the block...maybe I didn't get the right one of these either?

Snapped two exhaust manifold bolts...Helicoil, here I come.

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi JD,

The best way to determine if you have the correct timing cover, is to look at the cast in part number. The early timing cover will have the number starting with the number 74, then continuing with a bunch oif numbers and letters. The Ranger cover number will start with the number 83. You don´t want that one, because it requires the longer Ranger water pump, which makes the engine too long to fit the short Alpine engine bay. The only difference in the two covers, is around the thermostat housing casting. They are almost identical, but just enough different to make it impossible to use the early water pump with the later timing cover.

The crank pulleys have the yoke cast in. You may have the outer pulley, which just bolts on the the real crank pulley and doesn´t have the yoke with it. If you have a Rabger crank pulley with the yoke, you can use it if you have the outer groove turned off, leaving just the inner groove. The early crank pulleys were a bolt together affair, which needs to have the outer groove removed, by removing four small bolts. Don´t forget to put the bolts back in because they keep the pulley from moving on the hub that goes on before it. The only thing that indexes the pulley with the crank hub. If you don´t put the bolts in, the pulley will shear the pin and you´ll lose the correct orientation for the timing marks.

Jose

Alright,

Got the Mustang II timing cover and it seems as though the width of it is identical to the Ranger timing cover, only differnce seems to be the thermostat area in the lower right...maybe I didn't get the right timing cover?

Also, I removed the crankshaft pully and on the back it has the yoke that slides into the oil pan (block). The one I recently purchased is just the pulley with no yoke that goes into the block...maybe I didn't get the right one of these either?

Snapped two exhaust manifold bolts...Helicoil, here I come.

 

[JDSunbeam]

Got it, I'll just have the crank pully turned down by a local machine shop down to just one groove.

You're right bull...it did twist up and I had to use a plumbers pipe wrench to get it out.

 

[JDSunbeam]

OK, so the machine shop wants $85 bucks to do this. Does anyone have a Mustang II crankshaft pulley they'd be willing to part with for less than that?

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi John,

I would keep on looking for a reasonable machine shop. It shouldn´t cost more than about $30 to get that done.

Jose

OK, so the machine shop wants $85 bucks to do this. Does anyone have a Mustang II crankshaft pulley they'd be willing to part with for less than that?

 

[JDSunbeam]

Alrighty...moving along. I just got the Wilwood clutch slave cylinder in the mail, no the question is, how the heck do I mount the thing?

 

[socorob]

There's a post by Jim Ellis I believe that shows a picture of a simple z bracket to mount it.