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V-6 cams?

F

fowfam

What's the hottest cam I can run on the street? Also thanks for the visit Series 6, thanks for steering me in the right direction, ha get it, steering, oh sorry. You have a very nice alpine, looking forward to you're help, and friendship. I plan to put a 2.9 crank, floating rockers, port and polish, larger valves, ect. Or rather what's the cam everyone recommends? Thanks for your input, in advance, Josh.:)
 

Jeff Scoville

Donation Time
So your not selling?
Good for you Josh!
You have plenty of time, it doesn't need to get done in a year, if you can do it great, just get it done when you can and enjoy the trip.
 

Jim E

Donation Time
Delta%202.jpg


The above is the cam Delta ground for me and is the cam Jose uses Think the Delta part number is DEL-111 for this cam. My cam was ground on an after market cam one of the Crane pieces a stock cam cannot be ground to quite the specs as listed above but should be pretty close. Which may be a good thing for you if you build the 2.9 crank motor. Reason is the piston on some versions of the 2.9 crank motor stick above the deck of the block and with the lift of this cam you could run out of valve to piston clearance in a hurry.

I like the idea of the 2.9 crank motor it gives you more displacement and compression on the cheap. If I recall it gets up around 10 to 1 or a tad under that. Of course that is on the cheap provided you can score a 2.9 crank for little of nothing and have the snout machined for reasonable and the balance is not to far off. I would run the numbers on cost and then if it is any where near oh say $400 would forget the 2.9 crank and go with a set of custom fordged pistons with 9 to 1 compression.

Head work is the real key to making power on the 2.8 IMO, the ports on these heads are a mess really and a pain to port.

I assume you are refering to the Pruit rocker mod when you say floating rockers. My advise is forget it and just get a set of re-worked rockers from Delta. Work fine last a long time and are cheap to buy.

My motor has the cam, head work, big valves, custom made bronze guides, lightened rods, arp rod bolts, balanced, Offy intake, intake port matched to the heads, block decked for equal deck height, Crane HI6, Isky valve springs and retainers, Holley 390 reworked by a guy who knows his carbs and the car will make your butt pucker believe me, it will go side ways right now if you do not watch it and that is with below 9 to 1 compression on cheap gas.... I have around 3 grand in parts an machine work in this motor and that is not counting the core engine or any labor for the port work which I did took around a week and a half to do plus I assembled the engine myself. I fgure you could spend $4-5k if you had all the work done to re produce my engine toss in the 2.9 crank mode and the floating rockers and you could add a bit to those figures.

Two things for sure you want with a non-stock motor traction bars from day one, wheel hop will break things like right away and hardened axle keys or an 8 inch rear end actually you want these things with a stock motor because breaking stuff is no fun.... I know... blew a clutch...spun a hub....and busted a T5. I figure I spun the hub on day one because I did not put the hard axle keys in and figure wheel hop is what weakened first gear and finally killed the T5.

Just rambling just my opinion, I tend to get carried away when I build this stuff and sometimes go over board and wish I had not, wish I had listened to Jose on several things and learned the hard way... ok rant off got to go finish bolting my car together.
 

dannym

Donation Time
v-6 cams

Jim,
Are the valve events at 0.050" lift? How is the idle with this cam? As an old street rodder, I like a nice lope to let everybody know I'm "bad".
Thanks,
Danny
 

britbeam

Donation Time
Danny my engine is built nmore toward the mild side. My engine build was .030 over on bore,stock cam,polished the head area of combustion chamber to remove roughness ,removed all cast lines in head and polished,stock valves remain,stock rockers,offy intake,390 holley out of the box, Melling High volume oil pump, V6 Joe Headers,2 inch exhaust. This what I call a mild rebuild. Now my Alpine doesnt have the power of Jims but Im very pleased with it and for some reason it has that slight lope your talking about. Its been a lot of fun for the last 11,000 plus miles. The day will come that I will build a HiPo set of heads but as Jim said unless your going to do the porting,cc the heads etc. you better get that pocket book out. So you have to judge for your self on how far you want to go and how your going to use the car. Build it to suit what you want and enjoy the build.
Dwain V6 Krazy
 

Rsgwynn1

Silver Level Sponsor
There's a Crane performance cam and set of lifters on eBay right now. Not sure of the specs, but the seller can provide them.
 

Mark T

Donation Time
I called Jon at Delta a couple weeks ago with the info from Jim's cam card and they made me up the cam without me sending mine to them first. The total bill was $292 (including shipping to the Great White North) for the cam, 2 reciprocating assemblies and the 12 lifters. I'll get $86 back from the core charges when I return my original parts, so basically it was $200. I'm very pleased! Oh yeah... Jon threw in a t-shirt too!
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Jim,
Are the valve events at 0.050" lift? How is the idle with this cam? As an old street rodder, I like a nice lope to let everybody know I'm "bad".
Thanks,
Danny
Danny,

The cam that Jim is using, has a very distinctive lope, yet the cam is very streetable. Unless you are going to keep the revs above 7K, for extended periods of time, you don't need lightened rockers or tubular push rods. You have to remember that Sven Pruitt is building a full on race engine. Very little of what he says in his book, is applicable to a street engine. The valve gear in these engines is pretty light to begin with. I never used anything but stock valve gear in my engines, yet I shifted the engine at 7K all the time.

Jose :)
 
F

fowfam

Jim. Thanks for the response. In a nut shell , you've answered my question, and then some, which is Perfect, If you don't mind, I'm going to try and emulate your engine, Thanks again!:cool:
 

dannym

Donation Time
Thanks, Jose. I doubt I'll see 7000 very often, if ever. Too short between stoplights!:>) I'm leaning toward Delta cam, ported and polished head w/big valves, decked block, decked head for clean-up, polished and maybe shot peened rods, ARP fasteners everywhere I can get them, full balance, new or improved valve springs, and a home-made 3x2 set up (just because I like the way they look-I told you I was old school). Did you need a main girdle?
In my spare time, I keep laying the 4.0 head gasket on my 2.8 block and wondering why the heck Ford changed so many holes.:>( But all the head bolts line up! Maybe my next project. A hot 4.0 would really make a 2200 lb car move.
Danny
 

britbeam

Donation Time
Thanks, Jose. I doubt I'll see 7000 very often, if ever. Too short between stoplights!:>) I'm leaning toward Delta cam, ported and polished head w/big valves, decked block, decked head for clean-up, polished and maybe shot peened rods, ARP fasteners everywhere I can get them, full balance, new or improved valve springs, and a home-made 3x2 set up (just because I like the way they look-I told you I was old school). Did you need a main girdle?
In my spare time, I keep laying the 4.0 head gasket on my 2.8 block and wondering why the heck Ford changed so many holes.:>( But all the head bolts line up! Maybe my next project. A hot 4.0 would really make a 2200 lb car move.
Danny

Danny Im curious about this 3X2 set up . Are you a machinest with milling experience? Anywho just wanted to hear your thoughts of why you would do this over a good 390cfm carb.
Dwain V6 Krazy
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Thanks, Jose. I doubt I'll see 7000 very often, if ever. Too short between stoplights!:>) I'm leaning toward Delta cam, ported and polished head w/big valves, decked block, decked head for clean-up, polished and maybe shot peened rods, ARP fasteners everywhere I can get them, full balance, new or improved valve springs, and a home-made 3x2 set up (just because I like the way they look-I told you I was old school). Did you need a main girdle?
In my spare time, I keep laying the 4.0 head gasket on my 2.8 block and wondering why the heck Ford changed so many holes.:>( But all the head bolts line up! Maybe my next project. A hot 4.0 would really make a 2200 lb car move.
Danny
Danny,

I would suggest not buying after market springs, because a new set of stock 2.9 V6 springs is all you need. The valves are pretty light and the stock springs work well, especially if you don't intend on buzing it past 7,000.

Jose :)
 

Jim E

Donation Time
Ummm the 4.0 crank will fit the 2.8 block same as the 2.9 crank takes some machine work on the crank but it will fit...the 4.0 crank motor does need a set of custom pistons but it is and has been done. Thinking there is an engine builder in the UK that offeres big inch versions of the motor.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Ummm the 4.0 crank will fit the 2.8 block same as the 2.9 crank takes some machine work on the crank but it will fit...the 4.0 crank motor does need a set of custom pistons but it is and has been done. Thinking there is an engine builder in the UK that offeres big inch versions of the motor.

Wow! That should make for some interesting dimension. The 2.8 already has a rather marginal con rod/stroke ratio. How long is the con rod on this beast?

Bill
 

Jim E

Donation Time
Pretty sure it uses a stock 2.8/2.9 rod but it has been a while since I looked at teh info on the 4.0 crank motor so I may be a bit fuzzy on it
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
I see the biggest problem to going with a 4.0 stroker crank in the 2.8, is the limit on the size of the valves that can be put into the 2.8 V6 heads. Because of this, you might be able to make a lot more torque, but I doubt you'd be able to make the kind of horse power that you'd want, for the expense of doing the conversion. It would be great for the WOW factor, but would it be what you expected? In order to make power, the engine needs to breathe, so I wonder if the 2.9 valves would be enough to feed the 4.0 liters.

The red line would be lower too, so would be great as a truck engine. I think the 2.9 crank swap would be a better option, and wouldn't cost anywhere near as much. Just my poinion though.

Jose :)
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Just an FYI.

I have been involved with tuning a 4.0 engine in a tube frame ranger used in baja racing, and it is no slouch.

The engine revs very nicely to beyond 7000 RPM, with a relatively flat torque curve from 2500 to 6500 RPM.

This engine with aftermarket engine management, some larger injectors and some manifold/head porting produces an easy 250 Crank HP.

Its every bit as "revvy" as my 2.8 capri engine, with more than double the HP.
 

Ken Ellis

Donation Time
Rootes Racer:
Great. Now you did it.
Now Jim E. will be tearing up Vader in order to make it
a 4-liter in the next 10 days. He'll burn the midnight oil,
two more clutches and another trans getting it done in
time to make the Invasion. The good news is he'll set
a new door-to-door record of 5 hours 17 minutes to Tipp City.
The bad news is every cop in 6 states will be trying to
catch him, and the only place he can blend into the crowd
will be at Ian's. :eek:

Just kidding, of course...
Ken
 

dannym

Donation Time
Dwain,
As stated, I like the looks of 3X2. Plus, it would be inexpensive for me to do since I think I have three carbs somewhere in my stash. I have a good friend who has a mill in his shop and can weld aluminum. Together, he and I will attempt anything once. I have discovered that one of the 2.8 intakes has the carb flange "straight" instead of at some funky angle. So, I could weld a couple of blocks at each end and drill, bore, etc, to mount 3 Holley's or Stromberg's or ?? I haven't actually done any layout work to see if there is room for the carbs on that little short manifold. Not far enough along to worry about that. I have also considered using the Offy manifold with a homemade top plate to adapt to three carbs, but there went cheap.
To the others,
The 4.0 motor has the block raised 0.774 " to accomodate the longer stroke. This makes the motor slightly taller and wider. It also has a slightly longer rod. I understand the major problem with the 2.9/4.0 motor Sunbeam swap is the exhaust port arrangement. Thus, my effort to adapt the 2.8 heads to the 4.0 block (doesn't look promising). My research indicates that the 4.0 has the 2.9 valves, so Jose is correct in that we'll trade top end for bottom end, unless we get too crazy on the cam and then we may not have either. Of course, larger valves are a possibility. Then there's the overhead cam 4.0!!!! 190 hp in stock form. I think I'm getting a little crazy. But the good news is I have located a 91 AWD Aerostar at the local scrap dealer which has a 3.73 limited slip rear axle and should have the 4.0 motor. I can have whatever I want for $.25/lb. Same way I acquired my current two 2.8 motors.
Danny
 
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