Sway bar

[sunbby]

Well I think I may have figured out why our Alpine seems to have a lot of body roll while cornering. The end of the sway bar is not in the bushing. I don't know if it's just not on properly or it has been bent. I don't see what keeps the sway bar from sliding out of the bushings, is there some end piece I'm missing? What is the "distance piece" mentioned in the WSM?

Here I was thinking of upgrading to urethane bushings or a thicker bar, maybe I should just hook up the one I have!

 

[odl21]

thanks - very useful pictures for me. i just bought a 7/8 bar (my car never had one) and it comes with the bushings but not the mounting brackets which are not attached to my a-arms.

does anyone have four of these brackets going spare? i don't need the bushings.

thanks.

 

[RootesRooter]

With the bar so far short on the driver's side, I'm very surprised not to see an inch or more protruding from the far end of the passenger-side bushing. Maybe it's not a Sunbeam bar??? Hard to imagine the bar breaking, but....

Brand new 7/8" front bars are regularly appearing on eBay, which usually go for $100 plus pp. (there might be one there now) That's where I'd go.

Dick Sanders

 

[Jeff Scoville]

thanks - very useful pictures for me. i just bought a 7/8 bar (my car never had one) and it comes with the bushings but not the mounting brackets which are not attached to my a-arms.

does anyone have four of these brackets going spare? i don't need the bushings.

thanks.

I might have 20 or 30!
Several spare bars too.
I'll add them to the list.

 

[husky drvr]

sunbby,

I am thinking your bar is bent due to someone using it as an attaching point for a chain, tow cable, or maybe a tie down. The bar and its mountings will not stand up to much of that type of abuse.

 

[odl21]

I might have 20 or 30!
Several spare bars too.
I'll add them to the list.

cheers jeff. guess that means that if i find the 7/8 bar too stiff i can swap it with you for an old stock bar. btw, i fixed my window regulator (again) (the one that you broke ). i mushroomed a bolt with a hammer instead of using epoxy this time so it should hold for more than 20 miles this time.

sunnby - sorry for hijacking your thread!

 

[Tom H]

I think Husky Driver (Don) is right that your bar is bent from misuse or an accident. The "distance piece" is the thick washer that is between the outermost bracket and the A-Frame where the bracket mounting bolt is. You can see the "distance" in your photo of the driver's side. This piece is necessary to make up the difference in thickness of the A-frame stamping as it tapers toward the outer end.

Tom H

 

[Nickodell]

cheers jeff. guess that means that if i find the 7/8 bar too stiff i can swap it with you for an old stock bar.

Extra stiffness also causes more understeer at that end of the car. In other words, more roll stiffness at the front promotes understeer in cornering, while more stiffness at the rear causes oversteer in cornering, as several forum members have found who fitted sway bars at the rear.

 

[Toyanvil]

If you go to 7/8" in the front you should add a 5/8" to the rear to balance the car.

 

[sunbeam74]

First, hook up your sway bar properly.

If you still feel you have too much roll. Try the 7/8" bar before adding the rear sway bar. You will have more understeer but just see how your handling changes. The rear roll bars don't really balance the system as you would think and you can expect an oversteer condition.

What kind of shocks do you have? Not that it will reduce roll but Koni's or a performance set really help the handling. I'd opt for the best shocks you can get versus another roll bar.



Steve

 

[V6 JOSE]

First, hook up your sway bar properly.

If you still feel you have too much roll. Try the 7/8" bar before adding the rear sway bar. You will have more understeer but just see how your handling changes. The rear roll bars don't really balance the system as you would think and you can expect an oversteer condition.

What kind of shocks do you have? Not that it will reduce roll but Koni's or a performance set really help the handling. I'd opt for the best shocks you can get versus another roll bar.



Steve

I agree with Steve's assessment.

How much roll is too much roll? These cars are not set up to corner completely flat, since they are street cars. They will roll a bit normally. If the stock bar is correctly mounted, with a new set of Konis or Spax all the way around, I think you will find that the car will handle well, but will not corner completely flat.

I would avoid using a rear bar, unless you are making a race car. It will make the car pretty twitchy, and not a lot of fun to drive in a sporting manner.

Jose

 

[Toyanvil]

My Ser II is set up with 7/8" front 5/8" rear sway bars and gas shocks all the way around and it handles and rides great, a big improvment over stock. I have owned this car 30 years and it was stock when I bought it. I started with a 7/8" front sway bar and it made the car handle bad so I installed the 5/8" in the rear, and it did balance it out. I then added gas shocks. These cars can be set up to handle great and ride smooth without being twitchy. But once you start changing it there's no stopping. I would not add a 7/8" sway bar to a stock car if you do not plan on adding anything else. I agree with Husky drvr "using it as an attaching point" if it is not bent, I would remove it and reinstall it centered. It may just have been pulled out of that side.

 

[RootesRacer]

Well I think I may have figured out why our Alpine seems to have a lot of body roll while cornering. The end of the sway bar is not in the bushing. I don't know if it's just not on properly or it has been bent. I don't see what keeps the sway bar from sliding out of the bushings, is there some end piece I'm missing? What is the "distance piece" mentioned in the WSM?

Here I was thinking of upgrading to urethane bushings or a thicker bar, maybe I should just hook up the one I have!

Your bar broke.

 

[RootesRacer]

My Ser II is set up with 7/8" front 5/8" rear sway bars and gas shocks all the way around and it handles and rides great.

Have you ever had a "race" driver test your car to see if its really neutral?

Your car me feel right to you, but in the right set of circumstances you may find yourself swapping ends in a hard turn.

I have a lot of experience specifically on SII alpines and suspension tuning and I have NEVER seen a case where a rear bar was warranted. The front suspension is so loose causing major oversteer, the only way to remedy it is to stiffen the front bar, and often go to even higher rate front springs. Only when you have gone to far and made the front too tight should you consider getting a rear bar.

 

[Toyanvil]

Have you ever had a "race" driver test your car to see if its really neutral?
QUOTE]

Yes, that is who helped me set up the car at Willow Springs Raceway. back in the 80s I worked for a Formula Ford race team. I have also had rear springs built for it with Tiger spring rate and rebuilt all the suspension. I also installed Nissan running gear and 14" wheels. It is a daily driver, even on 110 degree days in Bakerfield CA.

I only posted about the 7/8 sway bar to share my experience. If you like the stock ride stay with the stock bar and save the money, and as you can see it's hard to stop once you start changing things.

 

[ozzie alpine]

A fabulous looking car Toyanvil, and its a daily driver too!
Don't be put off. I for one am thankful to share your experiences of 30 years of sunbeaming.
There will always be various opinions and experiences presented here, all of which are well intended.

I couldn't help but smile at the irony of 'letitbe' (with a Nissan motor!!)

cheers
Dave (12 months of sunbeaming!)
ps thanks for the photos of your seatbelts and rollbar

 

[alpine_64]

Have you ever had a "race" driver test your car to see if its really neutral?
QUOTE]

Yes, that is who helped me set up the car at Willow Springs Raceway. back in the 80s I worked for a Formula Ford race team.

QUOTE]

Who helped you set the car up?
Also, you have converted the rear to telescopic shocks, can we see some pics of the top and bottom mounts for those. I have done the same, but am always interested in other conversions, i have seen about 6 ways now.. always interesting to see mounting points, length of shock and general geometry,

 

[Toyanvil]

I will take some pictures of the shock mounts in the next day or two, if I can get some were it is parked. I am redoing the chrome on the windshield and grill, so while am waiting for the chrome to come back I am recovering the dash and dash pad. I can't remember the drivers last name, it was 27 years ago and I was 18. But his first name was Barry and our team was Spartan Racing.

 

[V6 JOSE]

Now the whole story is out. You were setting up a race car, which is what I said in the first place. It shouldn't be done to a street car, because it can get an inexperienced guy into trouble in a hurry.

There are many things that a race car requires to make it competitive, that just shouldn't be done to a street car. A rear anti sway bar is one that should be kept for the track only; like grenade motors that are meant to last just one or two races, but are totally unsuited for a street application.

Jose

 

[Toyanvil]

[QUOTEAlso, you have converted the rear to telescopic shocks, can we see some pics of the top and bottom mounts for those. I have done the same, but am always interested in other conversions, i have seen about 6 ways now.. always interesting to see mounting points, length of shock and general geometry,[/QUOTE]

Here are some pictures of my shock mounts.