Opinions, arguments, and complaints v6 swap infor needed

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Mike,

You´re probably right, because you know that our Sunbeams are mistaken for MG´s all the time.

Jose

 

[MikeH]

Hi Mike,

You´re probably right, because you know that our Sunbeams are mistaken for MG´s all the time.

Jose

Yeah, Jose. I thought about putting Sunbeam badges on my MG and see how many people remember it from "Get Smart"

 

[old grumpy]

Radical ideas

It's just one thing. The V6 doesn't sound like an Alpine..............but maybe that is unimportant?

Has anyone spent money on the 1725 engine. Balanced, polished, crack tested crank etc. Good pistons, Chevy conrods and so on. A reasonable camshaft, worked head. The bulletproof 1725 engine.
Is that an expensive option in U.S.?

 

[Cactusmasher]

opinions, arguments and complaints

The good ol' boy I talked to at M II Network must have been drinkin' moonshine or something, but he definitely said it was the MG guys buying up the M II stuff. I wasn't aware of that either nor have I seen any MGs running Ford drive lines. Was just passing along what he said. SOMETHING is causing the scarcity of our needed stuff. Maybe he was just pulling my leg because I was not happy with his high prices. For that kind of money they could have at least degreased the stuff. MY bad I guess......shoulda asked first.

 

[Bill Blue]

Jim, I think the problem is the "goodies" are getting close to 40 years old and no one is manufacturing new parts.

Bill

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Grumpy,

Not only does the V6 Alpine not sound like a stock Alpine, it doesn´t perform like one either. Jim Ellis has built what I consider to be one of the best and baddest 1725s, but it just didn´t perform or last like the V6. Jim says that he had to rebuild his 1725s after about a year of hard driving, so they don´t last that long either, if driven hard. Jim has spent a lot of years working on the 1725, but his own testimony is that the V6 Alpine spoils a stock Alpine for anyone.

I think that the guys that want a more or less stock Alpine, should keep their´s like that, There are some guys here that are doing the Chevy rod mods to their 1725s, but they just can´t perform to V6 standards. Almost twice the displacement is hard to overcome, no matter how you cut it.

Jose

It's just one thing. The V6 doesn't sound like an Alpine..............but maybe that is unimportant?

Has anyone spent money on the 1725 engine. Balanced, polished, crack tested crank etc. Good pistons, Chevy conrods and so on. A reasonable camshaft, worked head. The bulletproof 1725 engine.
Is that an expensive option in U.S.?

 

[socorob]

When i was looking around and thinking about buying an alpine at the beginning of this year, i ran across some company on the web that puts 2.8 fords or 3.4 chevys in mgs, and maybe they did triumphs too, i cant remember that for sure. Ill see if i can find it again. Maybe there are others grabbing all this stuff and its down to supply and demand.

 

[norville]

Looks like advance adapters had a kit to put a t5 behind 2.9ford. but they no longer offer it. So if you want a t5 behind a 2.8,2.9,3.0,4.0 folks are using the mutt2 bell. At least that's what I get from the ranger forums. Also the mustang2 's are starting to come into style again and some are actually restoring them to original form, instead of dropping in a 302. There's a cherry one for sale locally to me the dude has 4 chevelle's (2 conv, 2 SS, and one daily driver).

bob

 

[old grumpy]

Hi Grumpy,

Not only does the V6 Alpine not sound like a stock Alpine, it doesn´t perform like one either. Jim Ellis has built what I consider to be one of the best and baddest 1725s, but it just didn´t perform or last like the V6. Jim says that he had to rebuild his 1725s after about a year of hard driving, so they don´t last that long either, if driven hard. Jim has spent a lot of years working on the 1725, but his own testimony is that the V6 Alpine spoils a stock Alpine for anyone.

I think that the guys that want a more or less stock Alpine, should keep their´s like that, There are some guys here that are doing the Chevy rod mods to their 1725s, but they just can´t perform to V6 standards. Almost twice the displacement is hard to overcome, no matter how you cut it.

Jose

No, no, no! You misunderstood me. I am not thinking in terms of "outperform". I hardly think in terms of "perform" when I think about the Rootes engine. I was just curious to know about the cost in U.S. of a well done rebuilt (with a little extra power)
If you want power there are of course other options.

 

[Bill Blue]

No, no, no! You misunderstood me. I am not thinking in terms of "outperform". I hardly think in terms of "perform" when I think about the Rootes engine. I was just curious to know about the cost in U.S. of a well done rebuilt (with a little extra power)
If you want power there are of course other options.

Some have actually made engines pretty close to your standard, don't know why they have not responded. From what I remember, I'd guess $3000 would be very close. A stock rebuild is over $2000. So maybe a $750 premium.

Bill

 

[MikeH]

With the price of scrap up, I would assume that the 2.8 is going to get a lot harder to find as well. Finding a running Ranger/Bronco II may become the sole source. So the idea of finding MII parts may be next to impossible. If we could get more info on the mod made to the waterpump shaft of a Bronco 2.8 that allows it to fit behind the rad, that would be a good start. Also, it may be possible to fab an adaptor to use a transmission other that a T5 or even the T5 that wouldn't require a MII bellhousing. I bought a 5 speed conversion from Rivergate Restorations in TN
( http://www.rivergate5speed.com/rivergate.html ) that makes them for MG Midgets and B's that uses a Nissan 5 speed from a 280ZX (though they may be getting harder to find as well). But they made a plate that adapts the tranny to the block. It may be time to investigate those options.

 

[socorob]

I think the last year of the 280 and 1st year of the 300 was a t5. Now if someone could adapt the IRS from a z that would be sweet.

 

[MikeH]

I think the last year of the 280 and 1st year of the 300 was a t5. Now if someone could adapt the IRS from a z that would be sweet.

The T5 may have been used behind the Turbo versions. Rivergate was very specific that their kit was for the 5 speed from a non-turbo 280ZX and from what I have, it is not a T5.

 

[socorob]

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm

here's a list of some t5 applications

 

[todd reid]

Opinions...

Actually when I am idling in my V-6 at a stop light listening to the click of the pushrods, it reminds me my old 1725. I wouldn't say the engines sound alike, but there is a family resemblance. I like to think that if Rootes had stayed independent into the 1970's, the Ford V-6 would have found it's way into the Alpine - it just belongs there!

 

[RootesRacer]

Actually when I am idling in my V-6 at a stop light listening to the click of the pushrods, it reminds me my old 1725. I wouldn't say the engines sound alike, but there is a family resemblance. I like to think that if Rootes had stayed independent into the 1970's, the Ford V-6 would have found it's way into the Alpine - it just belongs there!

Actually the Cologne engine existed while Rootes was still in control of the show. Though the V6 came out in 1964 (2.0), the V4 came out in 1962 and was used in Saabs of the day.

 

[Bill Blue]

I would like for you to tell us which cars out there, will outperform the V6 Alpine, for less money. You may be talking about your Pinto motored Alpine, but you can´t be talking about The V6 Alpine.

Norville,

Bill is right about only one thing, and that is, you need to really love your Alpine to make it worth it. It is some work to accomplish the V6 conversion, but nothing close to what Bill has gone through to get his Pinto motored Alpine to where it runs. I think he is equating his experience with what it takes to convert a V6 Alpine.

Hey V6 guys,

Bill is casting aspersions on your V6 Alpines. What do you think about that? Do you think Bill could build a better performing car for less money than the $3K-$5k that Norville would spend on converting his Alpine?

Jose

Well Jose, the responses of the Darksiders put actual builds in the $7500 range and have degenerated into the usual, "Where can I find parts, at any price?" plea. It appears my turbo Pinto, with a Ranger transmission, but no turbo, will outperform your (or Norville's) $5K V6. But that's okay. You can enter your 75% completed conversion in a Soap Box Derby competition. I'm sure it will smoke $50,000 entries. They do have a 2500 pound class, don't they?

Bill

 

[gbinckes]

Actually Bill, not to ruffle anymore feathers, but Jose's kit CAN be used to build a nice, reliable V-6 Alpine that will have more hp then stock and tons more torque. If you went with a 4-speed from the Mutt II and didn't worry too much about performance I believe you could easily do it all under 5k. But in reality everyone building a V-6 Alpine is looking for more then a reliable runner, we all want to kick ass! And that takes a T-5, better rear, head and block work, Offy intake, 4-barrel Holley, etc. I want to build my car the way I want it, which is going to take the build to well over 10k, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I love the Alpine and I like the V-6 kit (I have to justify to everyone who has looked at my Alpine why I went with a V-6 instead of a V-8). I understand the limitations of the engine and thankfully we have a great forum here where people who have done it offer free advice that would have taken me months to figure out on my own.

All in all I expect to be very satisfied with my car, as I would be if I had decided to put in a SV engine, a pinto 4, a V-8, or even stretched the body to fit on a Miata! All it takes is time, money, and friends who will work for beer, and your own decision which way to go.

Garet

 

[old grumpy]

Some have actually made engines pretty close to your standard, don't know why they have not responded. From what I remember, I'd guess $3000 would be very close. A stock rebuild is over $2000. So maybe a $750 premium.

Bill

$ 2000 sounds like a lot. But maybe that is complete rebuilt. Everything "new" or "remade" except the engine block. And everything done by the engine shop.

 

[Bill Blue]

Garet, I believe that is what I said. For 5K you are going to get a pretty much stock 2.8 if you go with the T5. And Jose is adamant about the T5. I think a guy doing a budget conversion could use the M5 to good advantage, but that further shortens Jose's fuse. I have picked up two M5's, for way less than $400 total, but I was patient and lucky. I think that with a different transmission, you could get a good running V6 for 5K. That is if you are persistent, get a lot of really good buys and don't get stuck with some junk parts. Jose challenged me to build something for 5K that could beat a 5K 2.8 conversion with a T5. I think I have.

Grumpy, $2,000 for a rebuild is rather salty, but I don't think a guy is going to get the parts for much less. Keep in mind most of the engines over here are pretty shot. Entire valve train worn, crank needs cleaned up, need to rebore the cylinders, which requires new pistons. Head corroded, etc. The cost of entry is pretty steep.

The additional money to build the engine you are describing comes down to a few hundred dollars for machine shop work, cost of new rods and the additional cost of custom pistons over stock pistons.

Bill