Motor Oil with ZDDP

[TulsaAlpine]

So while at Wal-Mart they have a new selection of motor oil Accel brand, says it is made from all the used oil collected at Wal-Mart oil changes. Price is cheap and they have a blend for cars older then 1989, but just how much zink aka ZDDP. So I found this on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Accel-22601-SAE-10W-40-Motor/dp/B0052KY9BY/ref=pd_sbs_auto_5

When compared to Valvoline VR1 it has a different way of stating the amount of ZDDP. So the question is just how much ZDDP does a Sunbeam Alpine really need?

Accel is made by or distributed by Warren Distribution: http://www.wd-wpp.com/

Found this link to API: http://new.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/MOTOR_OIL_GUIDE_2010_120210.pdf

As much oil as old Vicki the Alpine runs through the front seal, this inexpensive choice would be great if it has enough ZDDP!
Donna

 

[Ken Ellis]

Just FYI, ZDDP is also available in a bottle by itself, to add to whatever oil you like to use. So if the recycled oil isn't quite right for your comfort, you can always add more to taste...

 

[Chuck Ingram]

Just FYI, ZDDP is also available in a bottle by itself, to add to whatever oil you like to use. So if the recycled oil isn't quite right for your comfort, you can always add more to taste...

Who would want to taste it anyway

 

[puff4]

Who would want to taste it anyway

I don't know about you, but I like a little McIlhenny's in mine. Gives it a little extra Ziddp!

 

[TulsaAlpine]

With a chaser of Marvel Mystery oil!

Just for taste I add Marvel Mystery Oil to the crankcase!

Donna

 

[puff4]

Oh, Donna... yes... it gives it that certain... mystery flavour...

 

[Hillman]

The local old British car guys have been debating this. A Canadian company is producing "Collector Automobile Motor Oil". Their claim is that our engines need about 1600 ppm of ZDDP (see www.camoils.com ).

I've been using Rotella deisel oil in the 1725 but debating trying this stuff. Opinions welcome.

 

[Eleven]

Donna,
On a slightly different topic, you mentioned that you lose a lot of oil through the front seal. So did I until I discovered there is some sort of vibration damper in the timing chain cover. There is a small bolt on the drivers right side of the engine on the cover right next to the pulley. If it is not there, you have a hole that squirts oil out. It looks like it is coming from the front seal but is not. I pulled the pulley off and threaded a bolt in easily and no morel leaking. Apparently there is no seal but a groove machined in the crank at that end to send the oil back (I think someone called it a reverse slinger?)

It is hard to see but take a look. Not a hard fix. And oh, I have decided to not think about what may have fallen off inside the cover...!

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Got the Mod timing cover

I have everything I need to swap out the timing cover for the Chevy, no slinger modification, but well gosh don't fix it if it’s not broke. That was why when I saw this bargain oil and after research it does have ZDDP then Wow more reason not to actually fix the oil leak...I cannot look at all the information from the Canada Camoils at work more research on amount of zinc our cars really need is my next task.... I would think that a different amount for breaking in a cam and normal driving? Opinions???

Donna

 

[Ragg Mopp]

There is a lot of "advertising" about ZDDP and not all of it is true. For instance, the claim above that cars need 1600 PPM of ZDDP. The limits for ZDDP in oil have been lower than that since 1993 when the limit was set to 1200 PPM. In 1996 it was set to 1000 PPM. Currently it is 500 PPM for automobile engines and slightly higher for diesel oils. If 1600 PPM was really required, none of our engines would still be running.

For break-in of a new cam and lifters, you should add some extra ZDDP to the oil. My reground cam came with some. After that you should not need extra unless you have an extreme high lift racing cam. I currently use 15W-40 diesel oil which today has about 700 PPM compared to the 400 PPM found in gasoline oils but am switching to 10W-30 on the next oil change now that I have a few thousand miles on the rebuilt engine.

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Understanding the labels

My recent finding is that I was using Valvoline VR1 but reading on the corvette forum they made a point that when you look at the API ratings it is clearly a SM which means the ZDDP has to meet modern car standards, less then what our cars need, but they claim 25% more lubrications to stop cam wear which means they are adding some synthetic to the formula.
So this cheap stuff from Wally World with a clear API rating of SF meaning it has 1100ppm zinc and would ruin a catalytic converter should not cause unusual wear on my cam. Seveal car forums have made the connection that our modern oil today is 46 years better refined and has 46 years more additivies then what was used in 1964, the quality of our modern oil with less zinc is now ashless, this makes it have more lubrication properties then what we put in the crank case in 1964.


Snake Oil!
Is That Additive Really A Negative?
Article by Fred Rau,
You Can't Tell The Players Without A Program
Organic zinc compounds are used as extreme pressure, anti-wear additives, and are therefore found in larger amounts in oils specifically blended for high-revving, turbocharged or racing applications. The zinc in your oil comes into play only when there is actual metal-to-metal contact within your engine, which should never occur under normal operating conditions. However, if you race your bike, or occasionally play tag with the redline on the tach, the zinc is your last line of defense. Under extreme conditions, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing, particularly between cylinder bores and piston rings. However - and this is the important part to remember - available research shows that more zinc does not give you more protection, it merely prolongs the protection if the rate of metal-to-metal contact is abnormally high or extended. So unless you plan on spending a couple of hours dragging your knee at Laguna Seca, adding extra zinc compounds to your oil is usually a waste. Also, keep in mind that high zinc content can lead to deposit formation on your valves, and spark plug fouling.


Donna

 

[Tom H]

The Fred Rau article does not mention flat tappets and cams. So I suspect it is written about modern cars and contains little or no relevance to maintaining a 1960s British car. This cam and tappet area is the area of concern about sufficient ZDDP for us Alpine buffs.

Tom

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Like Water?

Well I topped off Vicki the Alpine with the new Wally World for 1988 or older cars 10w-30 the stuff was like water, very thin, might have enough additive but I am thinking it’s too thin will just run right out of the front cover. So on my never ending search for inexpressive oil I stopped at Bumper to Bumper. They have their own brand of oil, and according to the store manager it is made by Valvoline. They have a straight 30 weight oil, and they sell Valvoline VR1. I think this may be my working solution to switch off topping the Alpine with the two products.

Donna

 

[puff4]

So I'm gonna resurrect this thread because I discovered something new (at least new to me!)...

Castrol now has an oil for classic cars, containing more zinc. It has about 1300ppm of Zinc, which is above the magic 1200ppm needed for flat-tappet motors like ours. Is anyone using this? Check it out...

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644

Exceptional Engine Protection for Classic Cars

Castrol has transitioned SYNTEC 20W-50 formulated for classic car engines to Castrol EDGE 5W-50 with SYNTEC Power Technology. Castrol EDGE 5W-50 offers performance improvements over SYNTEC 20W-50 in a number of key areas.

Back in 1906 Castrol created its first automobile lubricant. Since then, our leading–edge technologies have protected generation after generation of engines. Castrol EDGE 5W–50 motor oil is geared to protecting, preserving and helping extend the life of your vehicle from an age gone by that still lives on.

Today's engines are engineering differently and face different demands than those of yesteryear. Now classic car owners who are particular about what they put into their vintage vehicles can receive modern protection from a higher zinc formula specially engineered for classic engines.

 

[Nickodell]

Most of the Club members will know this, but for the few who don't - the name Castrol came from the fact that it was originally made from the oil from the bean of the castor plant. Castor oil had been used for centuries as a laxative (and as a kid I had more than a few doses of it - the results were dramatic!) but with the advent of aircraft and racing engines in the early 20th century it was found to be far superior lubricant to the mineral oils of the time.

When local Moto Cross (motorbike racing over rough ground, fields etc.) and dirt-track circuit racing began again after WWII, I remember being taken by my older brother to see some in 1945 and '46. The racers were still using castor oil, and the smell that resulted - a characteristic blend that cannot be described - is instantly recognized by anyone of my era.

In his great book The Kings of the Road, Ken W. Purdy relates how a group of British tank crews in Montgomery's 8th Army (The Desert Rats) in the N. African campaign came across a bottle of the stuff in the MO's tent [in those days it was said that the army treated every pain above the belt with aspirin and everything below with castor oil]. Some of them had been auto or m/c racers before the war, and the group heated a piece of armor plate, poured the oil on it and gathered around to smell the magic aroma, bringing back memories of an earlier life.

[P.S. I refuse to comment on "weight."]

 

[Mike Armstrong]

In a History Channel show on WW1 air combat I was watching, it was reported that due to those old aero engines spinning out castor oil onto the face of the pilot seated behind it, it was not unusual for those pilots to have a case of diarrhea when (and if) they made it back.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Also, on the topic of oil, does anyone remember the Consumer Reports car oil/additive test they did a few years back? From what I remember, they took something like 75? New York taxi's, tore the engines down and measured everything, then put different oils and additives in each one from the cheapest stuff to expensive synthetics and different mileage intervals, ran them all for a year from hot summer city stop and go to freezing winter and then tore them all down again and re-measured for wear.

Could be wrong, but I could swear they said that it didn't matter what oil, how long it was used for before changing or what additive was used, they could detect very little, if any, difference in the wear and tear or reliability of the engines.

 

[Nickodell]

But is it any good for shaving?

 

[Bill Blue]

Also, on the topic of oil, does anyone remember the Consumer Reports car oil/additive test they did a few years back? From what I remember, they took something like 75? New York taxi's, tore the engines down and measured everything, then put different oils and additives in each one from the cheapest stuff to expensive synthetics and different mileage intervals, ran them all for a year from hot summer city stop and go to freezing winter and then tore them all down again and re-measured for wear.

Could be wrong, but I could swear they said that it didn't matter what oil, how long it was used for before changing or what additive was used, they could detect very little, if any, difference in the wear and tear or reliability of the engines.

Yes, I did and you are correct in your rememberance.

At about that time I happened to have to remove the valve covers from a GM 3.8. It was my fathers, he had changed oil on schedule, using nothing but Quaker State. It had about 40,000 miles since a total overhaul. The sludge was something to behold. I decided preventing wear is not the only job an engine oil must perform. I've never purchased another quart of Quaker State as I had put hundreds of thousands of miles on engines using Valvoline and never saw sludge buildup like that engine had.

Bill

 

[puff4]

The sludge was something to behold. I decided preventing wear is not the only job an engine oil must perform. I've never purchased another quart of Quaker State as I had put hundreds of thousands of miles on engines using Valvoline and never saw sludge buildup like that engine had.

And that is why I *never* use Pennsylvania crude-based oils, Quaker State being one of them... they have a higher wax content and tend to gel (sludge) up in service.

Getting back to the Castrol Edge 'classic car' oil, is anyone using this?