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Front Suspension Coil overs
- Thread starter bashby
- Start date
Rob! You tease!
I am dying to upgrade my suspension and am anxiously awaiting your 4 link design details, now you drop this too! 4 corner coil overs is on my wish list and I've been staring at the front suspension for a bit.
Did you actually purchase the coil overs yet? I was concerned about the uppr spring perch on our A arms, it looks like they may hit/bind on the coil over if it isn't widened/removed. Your thoughts?
Rob
PS. Are you still planning on sharing your 4 link details? Thanks!
I am dying to upgrade my suspension and am anxiously awaiting your 4 link design details, now you drop this too! 4 corner coil overs is on my wish list and I've been staring at the front suspension for a bit.
Did you actually purchase the coil overs yet? I was concerned about the uppr spring perch on our A arms, it looks like they may hit/bind on the coil over if it isn't widened/removed. Your thoughts?
Rob
PS. Are you still planning on sharing your 4 link details? Thanks!
bashby
Donation Time
These are the Front Coil Overs I am looking ay http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mustang-II-Bolt-On-Coil-Over-Kit-w-QA1-Shocks,35903.html
Probably will use a 375# spring, my empty weight on the front wheels totals 1,200 pounds.
Major diameter of the spring is 5" and the length looks good for my setup.
Probably will use a 375# spring, my empty weight on the front wheels totals 1,200 pounds.
Major diameter of the spring is 5" and the length looks good for my setup.
socorob
Donation Time
Those are the ones I was looking at also.Top looks like it will be almost plug and play. I got measurements for the mustang 2 top bushing and it also looks very close. The bottom is the only thing that will need to be addressed. There was a bracket by skyjacker I think for dodge truck coil over conversions that I would imagine the lower bracket for an alpine would look like, just properly sized for our cars. Its the top bracket in these pictures. I would also fully weld the lower a arm while its off.
http://skyjacker.com/Instructions/DODGE/SKDGEB1.pdf
http://skyjacker.com/Instructions/DODGE/SKDGEB1.pdf
tigretr
Donation Time
The QA1 mustang II kit is close but no cigar. The springs have the right diameter on top but are too long , at least for my somewhat lowered car. The shock was also too short. I had to jack up the a-arm with the shock / spring installed in order to get the fully extended shock into the bolt hole on top ( no small task when the shock is loaded with spring pressure). With the car on the ground the front end was so high you might of thought I had hydraulics in it (350# springs). To make it work you would need to lower the upper shock connection point on the cross member or raise the upper spring seat. You would also need to significantly lower the connection point on the lower a-arm. I still have my shocks and springs from speedway and will some day make it work, but for now it is just something I think about. Definitely not a drop in upgrade.
bashby
Donation Time
What length of kit did you use? The QA1's I am looking at have a compressed length of 7 ¾ and extended length of 11†giving mount length in the 91/2†range. I also am looking at using the 1" or 2" upper extender which offered by QA1 and screws into the upper mount on the shock.
tigretr
Donation Time
The shocks I am using are 8.5 compressed and 11.75 extended. This is measured from the center of the bolt hole on the bottom to the top of the first rubber bushing on the shaft. Using an extender might allow you to install the shock easier (without compressing the spring) but it won't help with the fact that the springs are just too long. You will still need to either raise the upper spring seat or significantly lower the shock mount on the lower A-arm.
Brian
Brian
tigretr
Donation Time
The spings are 8 inches long. Not sure how long the springs would need to be. You would have to mock that up and measure it. My guess is probably in the 6.5 to 7" range in order to utilize the height adjustability of a coil over.
If you have the time to work this out with QA1 and share the info here that would be awesome.
Since the spring is supporting roughly 500 lbs per side at a rate of 350lb/inch, static travel is 1.43" of compression. There are roughly 1.28" between coils on the 500lb/in springs I just measured (which I am sending back). I would expect if willing, they could make a shorter spring that would work for our cars, in any spring rate we wanted.
If you have the time to work this out with QA1 and share the info here that would be awesome.
Since the spring is supporting roughly 500 lbs per side at a rate of 350lb/inch, static travel is 1.43" of compression. There are roughly 1.28" between coils on the 500lb/in springs I just measured (which I am sending back). I would expect if willing, they could make a shorter spring that would work for our cars, in any spring rate we wanted.
Hey Buddy!
Long time no talk! Good to see you on the forums again!
Has anyone given any thought into the eibach ERS spring selection? They have tons of different springs in any given weight, length, and diameter.. no need to have anything custom made.
Any example is an ERS spring with an ID of 2.5, length of 6,7, or 8", with spring rates beginning at 80 lbs and on up in increments of 5-10 lbs, cost of each spring is about $60. Since the spring is the same ID for it's whole length, not a "half barrel" shape like the Qa1 springs, all you would need to do is machine an insert for the top spring perch.
Rob
PS. I am still reading up on suspension design so the jury is out on if lowering the car will detrimentally affect with cars handling, but I am inclined to look into changing the a-arm mounting points to get the car lower and get the roll center in a good place... Anyone looked into the dynamics of this and done the math?
Long time no talk! Good to see you on the forums again!
Has anyone given any thought into the eibach ERS spring selection? They have tons of different springs in any given weight, length, and diameter.. no need to have anything custom made.
Any example is an ERS spring with an ID of 2.5, length of 6,7, or 8", with spring rates beginning at 80 lbs and on up in increments of 5-10 lbs, cost of each spring is about $60. Since the spring is the same ID for it's whole length, not a "half barrel" shape like the Qa1 springs, all you would need to do is machine an insert for the top spring perch.
Rob
PS. I am still reading up on suspension design so the jury is out on if lowering the car will detrimentally affect with cars handling, but I am inclined to look into changing the a-arm mounting points to get the car lower and get the roll center in a good place... Anyone looked into the dynamics of this and done the math?
Lower Ball Joint...
Moving the lower ball joint should be an easy matter of a small spacer block with some tabs on the lower A-arm... The only problem with that or moving the upper A-arm is those changes might change the camber gain. I am still playing around with making the car reliable so I have no idea how the suspension handles when pushed and if the current suspension geometry is adequate (Although Brian 'Tigretrs' car seemed to handle just fine when pushed
).
Rob
Moving the lower ball joint should be an easy matter of a small spacer block with some tabs on the lower A-arm... The only problem with that or moving the upper A-arm is those changes might change the camber gain. I am still playing around with making the car reliable so I have no idea how the suspension handles when pushed and if the current suspension geometry is adequate (Although Brian 'Tigretrs' car seemed to handle just fine when pushed
).Rob
socorob
Donation Time
I think if the lower arm is moved it would need to go up on the cross member end, or the top arm needs to go down on the cross member end. This is speaking strictly about camber gain, i have no idea what that would do to bump steer or ride. That's how the suspension was set up on some track day cars I was looking at at a race track at least. The lower arm angled down towards the wheel at ride height, I guess that's so during suspension compression it goes level and pushes the bottom of the wheel out as much as possible.Their upper arms were level at ride height, I guess so under compression it would pull the top of the wheel in. That seems like it would produce the most camber gain. The old mustang crowd calls it the arning or shelby drop when they lower the mounting point of the uca.
tigretr
Donation Time
From my experience there is no need to alter the A-arm mounting points to improve the Alpines handling. Just lowering the car, putting a thicker sway bar on, and putting wide, sticky tires on is enough to give you perma grin. As with everything there is room for improvement, but unless you are competitively racing it is probably not worth the effort. My current efforts are on making Delrin bushings for my A-arms. I was at Laguna Seca in Monterey for an open track event and I vaporized a rubber upper A-arm bushing. The rubber was essentially gone. I figure by taking the rubber put of the suspension I can maintain more consistent steering geometry.
If anyone is interested I can track down my alignment info and share it with you. I had my car aligned right before going to the track. I told them what I wanted, we made some small tweaks to my specs and the results were mind boggling. No matter how hard I turned in, the car went. Tires and a shredding bushing were my only limitations.
Brian
If anyone is interested I can track down my alignment info and share it with you. I had my car aligned right before going to the track. I told them what I wanted, we made some small tweaks to my specs and the results were mind boggling. No matter how hard I turned in, the car went. Tires and a shredding bushing were my only limitations.
Brian
tigretr
Donation Time
Rob,
Yah, I have been pretty busy lately. I had a son on 8/20 and have been working for my start-up after my family goes to bed. Hasn't left much time for working on the car. But since I can't drive without bushings,they have become my priority. All the rest of my car projects are on hold.
Good call on using constant diameter springs and making an adapter for the top. may be the easiest way to go.
Brian
Yah, I have been pretty busy lately. I had a son on 8/20 and have been working for my start-up after my family goes to bed. Hasn't left much time for working on the car. But since I can't drive without bushings,they have become my priority. All the rest of my car projects are on hold.
Good call on using constant diameter springs and making an adapter for the top. may be the easiest way to go.
Brian