• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

Duratec Update

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
For anyone wanting a blow by blow (or part by part, or mistake by mistake) rendering of the installation, here is the original thread. http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9500&highlight=Duratec

Here are some pics of the "finished" (I don't think it will ever be truly finished) installation:
IMG_1414.jpg


IMG_1415.jpg


IMG_1413.jpg


The mods to the engine are all bolt on. Did not even touch the ports.

The intake manifold was constructed to fit into the allotted space. Runners are 1 5/8" O.D. exhaust tubing, 19" long. The plenum is 3" tube, 10 1/2" long. The throttle body in the pictures is 50mm, which is smaller than the stock 2.3. It is too small, I'm in the process of adapting the stock unit to the intake.

The header is 1 5/8" O.D. tubing into a flat 4 collector, once again, made to fit the space available. Exhaust system is 2" with a generic turbo muffler followed by a generic glass pack. They work well for the street.

ECU is by RootesRacer. It controls ignition as well as fuel. Performance is above my expectations. For a baseline to performance, there is a hill in front of our house. A 5 speed ZX2 (published 0-60 times are 7 seconds) can start at the base of the hill and be doing 60 mph at the crest of the hill. That is balls to the walls, wide open driving, shifting at 6500 or so. The Alpine can be doing 70, starting in 2 nd gear and shifting to third in the 5000 range. I used a 2 nd gear start as the 2 nd gear synchronizer is shot and a quick 1-2 shift is impossible. The injectors are stock, 27 lb/hr and are currently running at 94% duty cycle at 7000 rpm, but the power is below 6000 and is a beast from 3000-5000.

The best part is yet to be attained. While tuning the engine this past fall, I was accelerating from 2,000 rpm to 7,000, up the hill in second gear while data logging. On a typical run, the computer would log 54-56 cells of info. Rarely, the engine would make the rear wheels squeal at about 2500 rpm and the run would take only 18 cells. I was not able to determine exactly what was causing the 66% reduction in time. As near as I could tell, the data for a normal run and the quick run were the same. I think I am running a little too lean.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
I've decided to make some comments about some of the sticky and perhaps not so obvious problems with this swap.

The most difficult problem is the starter. As near as I can tell, every Duratec engine and bell housing, including those that allow the use of a T5, have the goofy starter mount. Tilting the starter is the best, perhaps the only solution.

There are transmission alternatives. In addition to the Ranger 5 speed, there are two Miata transmission that would work, a 5 speed and a 6 speed. Quad 4 Rods offers a special bell housing that bolts to the T5. The Quad 4 Rods site shows bell housing that use a conventional starter, but I don't trust the photos. They show 3 housings for three different transmission, but all have the same transmission bolt pattern and the engine bolt pattern is not a Duratec.

The use of a 2.0 would ease installation somewhat as it is about 3/4" (I think) shorter in height. Uses the goofy starter, though.

I don't think it is absolutely necessary to make a fan pulley. The fwd engine (or timing covers) offer options, as does the possibility of an electric fan.

The Ranger 2.3 does not use rotating balance shafts and is a real thumper up to about 2,000 rpm. At least when used with the thin engine mounting biscuits.

The Duratec's all have a deep sump. My ground clearance is about 3 - 3 1/2". Not enough to clear the 4X4's that commonly are used in the trucking industry and often end up in the middle of the road. I shudder to think what one would do to an aluminum sump. There is a sump kit available from the UK that gives 1 3/4" more clearance.

Bill
 

jumpinjan

Bronze Level Sponsor
Bill,
Do you have any pictures of Jarrid's engine management box? What crank position sensor are you using? What fuel injectors?
Jan
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
No, I don't. Never thought to snap a picture of it. I bet he has one, or can get one. It's pretty non-descript, though. And not very big.

I am using the stock VR crankshaft position sensor. The injectors are the stock, high impedance, 27 lb/hr units. I'm wishing they were 30 pound.

If you use Jarred's ECU, it makes little difference what you use, it can handle almost anything on the market.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
I'm going to liven things up here with a few more photos. Here is the first, illustrating my ground clearance problem:
IMG_1960.jpg

Yes, gents, that's a 2 X 4, or to be more precise, 1 1/2" X 3 1/2". In any language, it ain't enough.

Here's my new oil sump. It is supposed to give 1.8" more clearance. Got a couple of things to do before I install it.
IMG_1961.jpg


Here is a comparison of the old and new throttle bodies:
IMG_1959.jpg

Guess which one is "new".

Bill
 

bashby

Donation Time
Bill, you work looks great! I agree that your oil pan clearance is a concern, speed bumps could be painful. Makes me want mine on the road even more. Like your look of the intakes going over the motor.
-Bill
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
I'm going to liven things up here with a few more photos. Here is the first, illustrating my ground clearance problem:
IMG_1960.jpg

Yes, gents, that's a 2 X 4, or to be more precise, 1 1/2" X 3 1/2". In any language, it ain't enough.

Here's my new oil sump. It is supposed to give 1.8" more clearance. Got a couple of things to do before I install it.
IMG_1961.jpg


Here is a comparison of the old and new throttle bodies:
IMG_1959.jpg

Guess which one is "new".

Bill


tell you a little secret you probably dont know about the your throttle.

It has a "wedge" on the butterfly.

The wedge is to impede the flow of air around it until the throttle is significantly opened and the airflow isnt directed to the bore of the throttle.

This will make your throttle more progressive and make it far less sensitive to control light throttle with a big throttle body.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
tell you a little secret you probably dont know about the your throttle.

It has a "wedge" on the butterfly.

The wedge is to impede the flow of air around it until the throttle is significantly opened and the airflow isnt directed to the bore of the throttle.

This will make your throttle more progressive and make it far less sensitive to control light throttle with a big throttle body.

I didn't "know", but I strongly suspected that was the role of the plastic on the throttle plate. Why else impede WOT air flow? That really is a huge TB for a 2.3 engine.

Here's hoping for 100 KPa up to 6500.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Here is the new TB mounted on the intake:
IMG_1964.jpg

The green tube hooks to the PCV line and the idle air bypass, a solenoid operated fuel valve which bumps rpm's about 300 rpm. The unpainted tube is air supply for the PCV.

The TB is designed to use a 3 1/4" air supply hose, but I didn't know how to source one that would fit my application, so I bored it out a tad to accept a 3" exhaust pipe. I can get 3" flex heater hose, which works fine. The section of 3" pipe is glued in with Goop Shoe Glue, as is the PCV air supply tube. Handy stuff.

Head on shot.
IMG_1963.jpg

The 1/4" brass fittings are for the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor and the fuel pressure regulator. Can't tell from this angle, but they enter the plenum about 2" downstream of the throttle plate. Also, the larger hose barb is for the fuel regulator and will be swapped out for a smaller one. As they say, it is "for illustrative purposes only".

Bill
 

jumpinjan

Bronze Level Sponsor
Not to side track your posts Bill, but here is my MegaSquirt-III that I finished building last night, and got running this morning.
(Now to set up my fuel & spark timings...)

jans_MS3_a.jpg
 

jumpinjan

Bronze Level Sponsor
2004 GM-Daewoo (Porsche co-designed), 2.5L, I6, DOHC, COP & port injection, all aluminum, hypereutectic cylinder walls & pistons. Weight is about 230lbs, 155hp.

Jan
verona_20.jpg
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
You know Bill, I was so impressed with the engine, that I didn´t really pay attention to the fact that it is a six cylinder, and I looked at it a long time. Amazing.

Jose
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
You know Bill, I was so impressed with the engine, that I didn´t really pay attention to the fact that it is a six cylinder, and I looked at it a long time. Amazing.

Jose

I didn't either, until about the 3rd time through!

Bill
 
Top