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Drop spindles

Discussion in 'Sunbeam Tiger' started by volvoguys, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. volvoguys

    volvoguys Diamond Level Sponsor

    I may have come across a pair of Hillman spindles that are oftentimes used as a alternative 'drop' spindles for the Alpine and Tiger. I would appreciate if anyone who has or has had a pair could tell me the Rootes casting numbers on each side.

    Thanks, Mark ….. volvoguys
     
  2. BlackDog

    BlackDog Silver Level Sponsor

    Mark
    I don't know the part#'s but I can show you the difference between the 'drop' Minx ones and Alpine... easy to see side by side
    I just put a set up for sale actually...
     

    Attached Files:

  3. volvoguys

    volvoguys Diamond Level Sponsor

    Thanks for the pics, Jim. They really show the height difference between the stock Alpine/Tiger spindles versus the Minx.

    I was hoping there may be casting numbers somewhere on the parts. Do you see any?

    Thanks, Mark ….. volvoguys
     
  4. phyrman

    phyrman SAOCA Secretary Diamond Level Sponsor

    I had a set on my Tiger years ago!
    I bought them for a whopping $160/pair! Now they are $$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  5. sunalp

    sunalp Diamond Level Sponsor

    .
    Where did you put them up?
     
  6. BlackDog

    BlackDog Silver Level Sponsor

    My ad is on CAT ... http://catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=6849

    I have the part#'s in an old email from a guy that I bought some from in New Zealand... this is what he said
    Part numbers just for reference:

    1216780 R.H SUPER-CEDES TO 1229652

    1216781 L.H. " " 1229653

    'Alpine/Tiger' spindles are 1229650 and 1229651 from the parts manual

    I can't say that I've seen any numbers on any actual spindles I've had though...

    BTW, I've never found a pair of correct ones on a US spec car but have on UK,NZ, OZ and Canadian cars! No idea why that is !

    I've been pretty good at finding these over the years but must say it's almost impossible now. The ones I have are the first I've come across in over 2 years!
     
  7. husky drvr

    husky drvr Platinum Level Sponsor

    IIRC, the only Minx spindles that would be "drop" spindles are the ones that were OE on the last series of Minx, the series VI Minx. There might be some other Audax sedans, also - maybe. I think the change occurred at the same time the sedans changed from 15 inch wheels to 13 inch wheels. I doubt very many VI's were imported in comparison to the earlier series.

    HTH
     
  8. Filister

    Filister Gold Level Sponsor

    FWIW, Although not applicable to tigers as these are king pin style, today I compared my 59 minx spindle to a 63 or 64 alpine spindle. The minx spindle center was approx 1" higher than the alpine. Possibly this may mean all minx' had "lowering" spindles compared to alpine. But only the ball joint spindles will work on tigers. This would mean minxes late 64 and on might be usable?
     
  9. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    If a Minx series VI is in this regard in the picture than without no doubt also a Minx series V is a candidate!

    Regards,

    Peter
     
  10. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    The drop spindles were on post '65 minx iirc to deal with change from 15" wheels.

    Id always wondered if the early kingpin husky/ minx could provide a drop spindle for the series I-3 alpine... But i couldnt find one with a higher position

    @Filister do you have the part number.. What size wheel is on your '59 minx??

    ...
     
  11. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    The Minx series V was introduced in the autumn of 1963 and had 13 inch wheels. In my time as a mecanic at a Rootes dealer I have only seen one time a Minx series V with 15 inch wheels. I owned a 1964 series V Minx which had 13 inch wheels and also the 1963 series V of my brother had 13 inch wheels, so I guess that Rootes had some old spindles of former Minxes which they used to get rid of their stock.
     
  12. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Did the minx V have king pin or ball joint front end?
     
  13. Filister

    Filister Gold Level Sponsor

    My 59 Minx had 15" wheels. So if these lowering spindles were used with the introduction of 13" wheels, would that mean that the 13" wheel Minx' sat 2" lower than earlier Minx?

    I wonder if Rootes put a longer spring in the Minx for more wheel travel, then compensated with a spindle change. When I replaced the springs in my 57 Rapier with springs from the 59 Minx it sat 1" higher than before. When I put 64 alpine springs in the Rapier it sat 1" lower than stock?

    I'll compare the Rapier spindle height to the Minx later. I'll check for part no.'s on the spindles.
     
  14. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    The Minx series V has a ball joint front end just as the Minx series VI. I owned both series in the sixties and the early seventies.
    The Rapier series IV ( I own one) and the Rapier series V have the same front end as the Minxes series V and VI.
     
  15. BlackDog

    BlackDog Silver Level Sponsor

    The last set that I found was in UK and from a Gazelle

    Here are the donor cars that I've been told ( by several Rootes enthusiasts ) should have them..

    "Hillman Minx Series V and VI, Singer Gazelle Series V and VI and the Sunbeam Rapier Series IV and V. All these would have been offered from very late 1963 up until their final demise in 1967"

    As far as I can tell, all the above cars ( as do the Tiger and Alpine ) share the same 'basic' cross member, a-arms, ball joint, disc brakes and 13" wheels so why are there 2 spindle heights ??!

    Again, I've never seen them on a US spec car which I find very odd
     
  16. Filister

    Filister Gold Level Sponsor

    I have spindles from 57 Rapier, 59 Rapier and 59 Minx. All show a 1" drop compared to my 63 alpine spindle. This would seem to coincide exactly with cars with 15" wheels ( Minx and Rapier )vs cars with 13" wheels (alpine). This would keep the ride heights equal. If this is true then the spindles that would be usable on an alpine or tiger and give a 1" drop would be those minx that had ball joint front end and 15" wheels. When the minx went to 13" wheels they either would have let the car drop 1" or go to alpine height spindles.

    Based on BlackDogs comments it would seem that Rootes didn't adjust the spindle height on the 13" wheel minx and left the spindle height as the earlier Minx and those donor cars would be correct with caliper mounts and 1" drop.

    To get a 1" drop on a kingpin style alpine it seems you could use any 15" wheel style spindle. But, you would have to make a brake caliper mount unless you had a spindle from a disc brake, 15" wheel Minx.

    The casting # on the minx spindle is: first character is s,3,or 8. to faint to tell. Assume s
    sg125 1star777n3jgsd. Again, these were not all that clear so could be an other error in there.
     
  17. BlackDog

    BlackDog Silver Level Sponsor

    I've personally parted out several Series V and VI Canadian Minxes and they all had the 'dropped' spindles and 13" wheels
    BTW, the later Super Minxes have Alpine/Tiger spindles with no 'drop' !
    Interesting note on the cross members... the Alpine Tiger ones have an aluminum wedge riveted to them ( between the frame rails and the cross member ) with the 'thick' end at the rear... I'm assuming to gain a bit of caster ? but all the Minxes I've dismantled had the wedge ( different part# ) with the thick part at the FRONT !
     
  18. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Diamond Level Sponsor

    Black dog, I have been following the discussion on drop spindles it is very interesting. To me it is amazing the number of running changes that Rootes did on their cars.
     
  19. BlackDog

    BlackDog Silver Level Sponsor

    Mark

    I came across some old notes and apparently I took down the numbers off a set a few years ago...

    "...17230B 1990442 on one of them and 17231B and 1990443 on the other..."

    Hope that helps!! I think the visual of the 2 types is hard to mix them up though
     
  20. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    One thing I rarely see mentioned along with the dropped spindles is the fact that changing the spindles changes the steering geometry.

    Sure. the spindles bolt right on, but doing so screws up the bump steer geometry.
     

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