Difference between an Alpine and a Tiger in the Engine Compartment

[tigretr]

So I have been thinking about engines lately......... as to which may be the next generation implant into my car. My turbo motor is awesome, and I just put a slightly larger turbo on it to unchoke it... which I believe unleashed a new animal (needs a lot of tuning). That being said, that motor will not last forever which has lead me down the path of what next. One thing I can't quite figure out from pictures is, if the engine compartment on a Tiger is exactly the same as the Alpine with the exception of the fire wall mod Shelby did to set the engine further back. Are the frame rails in the same place (distance apart) and the gussets on the fender wells the same as well? If anyone has any insight on this, I would be grateful for your input .

Thanks,
Brian

 

[volvoguys]

The distance between the frame rails in a Tiger is identical to a late-production Alpine. Rootes supported the 260 with pair of cast iron motor mounts where the Alpine steering would have been mounted. The inner fender top hats (gussets) are different. If your plans involve using a V8 the transmission tunnel will need to be enlarged.

There are other differences between the Alpine and Tiger engine bays, but they may be irrelevant depending on what engine, steering and radiator you plan to use.

 

[spmdr]

I'll add this, ...or my $.02:

One mod done to each side inside "frame rail"

to fit a Ford V8, is to remove a section of metal

from the top of the "frame" box section.

Then pound the side of the box section outward.

Then weld up the remaining cut.

The location of this mod is at the base of the Tiger

inner fender brace.

The mod is very likely to be the basis of the

legendary/controversial story about the

Big burly guy on the Tiger production line

with a Big Mallet pounding on the "firewall" for V8 fitment.

The original wording was "bulkhead",

And wrongly assumed to be the same as only "Firewall".

DW

 

[PROCRAFT]

The most glaring difference is the steering which is in the way for everything except a 4 Cylinder motor

 

[Bill Blue]

The most glaring difference is the steering which is in the way for everything except a 4 Cylinder motor

Sorry, but I've got to "correct" the above statement.
"The most glaring difference is the steering which is in the way for everything except a few 4 Cylinder motors."
Bill

 

[tigretr]

Thanks for all your replies. They pretty much verified what I could deduce from photos on the internet. Gonna give my motor one more chance before moving on to the next challenge. Although I must say even that thought hurts my heart.

 

[Bill Blue]

Any chance you can update the 1725? More displacement and better breathing would probably make a big difference even on a turbo motor.
Bill

 

[sunalp]

Any chance you can update the 1725? More displacement and better breathing would probably make a big difference even on a turbo motor.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, like a Miata 1.8 twin cam or an S2000 drive train. Both can put out more HP
than most V8's.

 

[tigretr]

My motor is already using 84mm JE pistons (1796cc), Carrillo rods, ported, polished head, enlarged ports, bigger valves, 12psi boost, roller cam/lifters, roller rockers. You name it, I've done it. The bigger turbo I just put on will definitely help the motor breath better as the small turbo I had on it was a .5 inducer and caused a huge amount of back pressure. ( still producing 182hp at the wheels) The new one is a .63 inducer which I can already tell makes a huge difference. Just working with an overboost and tuning issue right now. Which can't be addressed until I get the rear main to stop leaking. Done a ton of work back there (welded the scroll, rope seal, rope seal again, new design) but so far I haven't found the right combo. Currently working on a new seal design, but getting real tired of the oil issue. So, in parallel, I am pursuing a very different path. I pick up my new power plant tomorrow. This should get real exciting and definitely be a one off in the Sunbeam world. 2014 Ferrari California N/A 4.3L V8 with only 3000 miles on it. This will most likely get attached to a Tremec TKX 5 speed. Wish I could go the DCT route but there is just no room for it.

 

[Aladin Sane]

Well that would for sure be a different engine swap.

 

[volvoguys]

My motor is already using 84mm JE pistons (1796cc), Carrillo rods, ported, polished head, enlarged ports, bigger valves, 12psi boost, roller cam/lifters, roller rockers. You name it, I've done it. The bigger turbo I just put on will definitely help the motor breath better as the small turbo I had on it was a .5 inducer and caused a huge amount of back pressure. ( still producing 182hp at the wheels) The new one is a .63 inducer which I can already tell makes a huge difference. Just working with an overboost and tuning issue right now. Which can't be addressed until I get the rear main to stop leaking. Done a ton of work back there (welded the scroll, rope seal, rope seal again, new design) but so far I haven't found the right combo. Currently working on a new seal design, but getting real tired of the oil issue. So, in parallel, I am pursuing a very different path. I pick up my new power plant tomorrow. This should get real exciting and definitely be a one off in the Sunbeam world. 2014 Ferrari California N/A 4.3L V8 with only 3000 miles on it. This will most likely get attached to a Tremec TKX 5 speed. Wish I could go the DCT route but there is just no room for it.

"in the Sunbeam world"? How do you plan on getting this between that narrow frame and under the hood of a Sunbeam? 490 BPH is way, way too much power for one of these bodies to handle as a road car.

 

[Dan Moore]

Hi Brian
From what I,ve seen of your work in the past. If there is a will there is a way good luck on your plans
Dan

 

[Bill Blue]

The engine resembles the overall characteristics of a modern 4 banger. When looking at the entire package ready to install, it is about as wide as it is long. I'm thinking a lot of rearranging lies in the future.
Bill

 

[spmdr]

It was claimed Rootes had talks about more power for the Alpine with Ferrari back about 60 years ago...

It's a good thing the old man won't be able to keep it from happening this time?

DW

 

[tigretr]

In the

"in the Sunbeam world"? How do you plan on getting this between that narrow frame and under the hood of a Sunbeam? 490 BPH is way, way too much power for one of these bodies to handle as a road car.

Fortunately these cars are made of metal. And just as Shelby did to fit the 260/289 for the Tiger, I plan to cut, move, weld, and paint. I will have to get creative in places, but for the most part everything is negotiable. Tight quarters might be an understatement, but that is the nature of the beast. Even with my Alpine motor, half the bolts take custom bent wrenches and finger tip turning 1 flat at a time. Until I have the new motor and pull my Alpine motor, I won't know for sure what has to move, but I am pretty confident this will work. And the frame can always be made stiffer with some caging which has already been done when I installed the 3 link 9 inch rear end. Never say never. Just hmmm, didn't see that coming!

 

[Bill Blue]

For me, t. he hardest part of this exercise was my after getting the bare engine installed, to be able to see what should be located where. So I was condemned to designing, building and installing parts two, three, maybe four times, as parts kept getting in the way of other parts. Important parts that have to go in their own, special location. Some of my best work ended up being modified/rebuilt and ultimately trashed. If you can avoid that issue, things will fall into place a whole lot easier.

Good luck.
Bill

 

[tigretr]

Bill, I totally agree. Don't get me wrong, there are some things that are worrying me. Like I am pretty sure the valve cover lands right about on the axis of the steering column. And where my brake master is going to go. Or how I am going to move the bolt points of the cross member on the passenger side to make room for the water pump that is cast into the engine block. Believe it or not, I think this last one is the easiest of the 3 majors challenges above. But hey, we all learn best when thrust outside of our comfort zone. And I am just far enough outside of mine to be excited.

 

[Jay Laifman]

FYI, I recall someone put in a pedal box that put the masters inside the driver's compartment, flipped around pointing towards the driver from the pedals. Possibly Steve Alcala's Sebring recreation.

 

[alpine_64]

@tigretr
Brian, have you watched the "homebuilt by jeff" YouTube channel.
A guy in Sydney who has built a step fromt alafa 105 with a Ferrari 430 motor... He did some interesting things like cutting and lowering the intake to help with clearance and hooked the motor to a Miata box .. check out his progress.. car just got on the road after maybe 2.5 year build ( that includes a lot of rust repair and fabrication before the engine swap)

 

[Barry]

Never say never and hope I'm wrong, but I can't help imagining no inner fenders and a NHRA pro-stock hood scoop.