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America Needs Leaders Like This!

Nickodell

Donation Time
In response to anger expressed by some Australian Muslims to his pledge to crack down on extremists and his support of spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques, Prime Minister John Howard said:

“Immigrants, not Australians, must adapt. Take it or leave it. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks in Bali [Indonesia, in which Australian tourists, among other, were killed], we have experienced a surge of patriotism by the majority of Australians.

“However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the ‘politically correct’ crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigrants, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

“The idea that Australia is a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak mainly English, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language! …. [In regard to Islam]: “We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.

“If the Southern Cross [Australia’s national flag] offends you, or if you don’t like “A Fair Go’ [treating people fairly and courteously], then you should consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don’t care how you did things where you came from. By all means keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

“This is our country, our land, and our lifestyle, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you have done complaining, whining and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge … or our Way of Life, I highly recommend you to take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, the right to leave. You asked to be here, so accept the country that accepted you.”

Separately, Treasurer Peter Costello, who will likely become Prime Minister at the end of Howard’s term, hinted that some radical clerics would be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia is a secular nation, and its laws are made by parliament, not clergy. “If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia Law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you” he said on National Television. “I’d be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another Islamic law; that is false. If you can’t agree with parliamentary law, independent courts and democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country which practices it, perhaps, then, that’s a better option.”

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country.

Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that regarding Muslims who did not want to accept local values: “Basically, people who don’t want to be Australians and live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off.”

This was sent to me. Hopefully, our OZ members can confirm its authenticity. If they do, Send this to everyone you know, and your Senators, Congressman and State Politicians.
 

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
Well said Well said
We have the same thing in Canada and we need someone with the guts to say this.Shieks; and I know some very nice ones; have now the right for students to carry their dagger as it is a religous artifact.We had a student stabbing a student here last week.No he wasn't a shiek but you get the picture.
 

Chazbeam

Silver Level Sponsor
have to agrea

well stated! and i agree. do not force your belief system on me or anyone else. go live in a Muslim country that values that way of life or shut up.
and i am as liberal as it comes on most issues but this one is galling as it is imposing one idea or belief on another person and this is oppression period. just like i cant stand christianity being shoved down my throat every witch way i turn hear in the US. i also cant stand the so called "democracy" imposed on the rest of the planet by the wealthy mafia bullies we now have as our leaders hear.

That said this is i think a forum for people that value the classic cars of a time when people where not so narcissistic. I come hear to escape the idiot political world. I apologize if any of my statements offend. after all its just opinion and there like *******s everyone has one.

Best
Chaz
 

Green67Alpine

Former SAOCA Membership Director
Platinum Level Sponsor
We(USA) sure could use some backbone, looks like the Aussie's got some. What they may not have is the aclu.. lucky them ....
Tom j
 

Wombat

Donation Time
Can't vouch for the word for word accuracy of the quotes, but the general content is in line with other statements from John Howard and his Ministers. To say any more would involve making political comment and I am not going there.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
We(USA) sure could use some backbone, looks like the Aussie's got some. What they may not have is the aclu.. lucky them ....
Tom j

Better thank your lucky stars we have the ACLU. It is the only organization dedicated the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights. Don't understand why people have not figured out that when you inhibit one group their rights, you've started down a slippery slope.

We need to support everyone's rights. While I seldom agree with Nick, I always support his right to be wrong.:D

Bill
 

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
Better thank your lucky stars we have the ACLU. It is the only organization dedicated the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights. Don't understand why people have not figured out that when you inhibit one group their rights, you've started down a slippery slope.

We need to support everyone's rights. While I seldom agree with Nick, I always support his right to be wrong.:D

Bill


Bill,

The ACLU will not help defend all parts of the Bill of Rights.

By those omissions, The ACLU sets its own political agenda. :eek:
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill,

The ACLU will not help defend all parts of the Bill of Rights.

By those omissions, The ACLU sets its own political agenda. :eek:

Probably, but they still do more to defend the Bill of Rights than any other group. Probably any half dozen groups. I did not say they are perfect, only that we need them. And in these times, we are in desperate need of them to protect us from our own government.

Bill
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
The ACLU is very selective in the causes it defends. Translation: almost without exception NO to anything that can be classed as a conservative cause: YES to anything that can be classed as looney liberal left-wing, or that inhibits this country's ability to protect itself from those who would, and probably will, commit a "spectacular" that will make 9/11 look like a traffic accident.

People say that their hearts are in the right place and their intentions are good, as if this somehow makes everything right. It reminds me of something by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.: Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

I am old enough to have suffered the consequences of the same kind of thing, in the 1930s. Oh, we mustn't be beastly to the Nazis, it's the godless communists that are the threat. And after all, that nice Mr. Hitler was democratically elected, wasn't he? There were tens of thousands in Britain, plus most of the press, who denounced Churchill as a dinosaur, a throwback to the 19th Century, a sabre-rattling, jingoistic warmonger with his warnings about German rearmament; more of a danger than Hitler. Fast-forward 70 years: many left-wing loons are saying essentially the same: Bush is more dangerous/a bigger terrorist than bin Laden; the Commander in Chief in Iraq is General Betray Us. Our soldiers are rapists, murderers etc. And the Democrat Party has now sold its soul to these extremists.

Warrantless wire-tapping of conversations between terrorists have helped us round up hundreds of these people and thwarted dozens of attacks on us. The ACLU, and its fans, babble on about civil liberties and are constantly getting some equally looney judge here or there to grant injunctions stopping the practice. They will continue to do so until, one day, someone whom we could have stopped in his tracks places a nuclear bomb on one of the 6 million shipping containers that enter our ports each year, and render half of Pennsylvania, or New York State, for example, permanently uninhabitable (along with - oh - a few million of their inhabitantss). The most basic civil liberty is the one that allows you to wake up each morning.

It is all so reminiscent of other previous "peace at all costs, defend our liberties" nuts, like Bertrand Russell and Gandhi. Gandhi? Yes; during the early 1940s he tried to get the Indian Army (a large force of several divisions, well trained, superbly motivated, proud of their uniforms, with Indian NCOs and junior officers but British senior officers), which was fighting alongside regular British units in Burma, to lay down their arms and desert. "God smiles on our Japanese brothers, just as he does on us," he intoned. He said that India should welcome them in as tourists.

The ACLU? Anti-American Clowns and Lunatics.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
The ACLU is very selective in the causes it defends. Translation: almost without exception NO to anything that can be classed as a conservative cause: YES to anything that can be classed as looney liberal left-wing, or that inhibits this country's ability to protect itself from those who would, and probably will, commit a "spectacular" that will make 9/11 look like a traffic accident.

People say that their hearts are in the right place and their intentions are good, as if this somehow makes everything right. It reminds me of something by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.: Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

I am old enough to have suffered the consequences of the same kind of thing, in the 1930s. Oh, we mustn't be beastly to the Nazis, it's the godless communists that are the threat. And after all, that nice Mr. Hitler was democratically elected, wasn't he? There were tens of thousands in Britain, plus most of the press, who denounced Churchill as a dinosaur, a throwback to the 19th Century, a sabre-rattling, jingoistic warmonger with his warnings about German rearmament; more of a danger than Hitler. Fast-forward 70 years: many left-wing loons are saying essentially the same: Bush is more dangerous/a bigger terrorist than bin Laden; the Commander in Chief in Iraq is General Betray Us. Our soldiers are rapists, murderers etc. And the Democrat Party has now sold its soul to these extremists.

Warrantless wire-tapping of conversations between terrorists have helped us round up hundreds of these people and thwarted dozens of attacks on us. The ACLU, and its fans, babble on about civil liberties and are constantly getting some equally looney judge here or there to grant injunctions stopping the practice. They will continue to do so until, one day, someone whom we could have stopped in his tracks places a nuclear bomb on one of the 6 million shipping containers that enter our ports each year, and render half of Pennsylvania, or New York State, for example, permanently uninhabitable (along with - oh - a few million of their inhabitantss). The most basic civil liberty is the one that allows you to wake up each morning.

It is all so reminiscent of other previous "peace at all costs, defend our liberties" nuts, like Bertrand Russell and Gandhi. Gandhi? Yes; during the early 1940s he tried to get the Indian Army (a large force of several divisions, well trained, superbly motivated, proud of their uniforms, with Indian NCOs and junior officers but British senior officers), which was fighting alongside regular British units in Burma, to lay down their arms and desert. "God smiles on our Japanese brothers, just as he does on us," he intoned. He said that India should welcome them in as tourists.

The ACLU? Anti-American Clowns and Lunatics.

As stated previously, I always support Nick's right to be wrong.

Bill
 

Green67Alpine

Former SAOCA Membership Director
Platinum Level Sponsor
Right on Nick !
In ___ we Trust, One Nation under ___. school prayer, and so on...
not a thumper, but why push minority views on the majority ?

Tom j
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
Interesting coincidence. It was another "Tom j," Thomas Jefferson, who strongly believed in separation of church and state, and tried to keep all references to God out of the Constitution.


Right on Nick !
In ___ we Trust, One Nation under ___. school prayer, and so on...
not a thumper, but why push minority views on the majority ?

Tom j
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
OK, guys; mea culpa. As an atheist who has had several articles published in major newspapers declaiming about having religious mottos thrust on us, I'll give you, and the ACLU that one. But only that one.

However, the subject, you may recall, was the way they, and others of their ilk, are hampering our ability to forestall a catastrophic attack. Intelligence, knowing one's enemy's intentions before they act, has always been the key. Pearly Harbor would have been avoided if intelligence that had been thrust upon the military had been acted on. So would the Battle of the Bulge. And the rout and retreat following the Chinese mass attack in Korea in 1950.

It's the same as the current babbling about torture. I would like to get one of these halo-wearers who put their hands on their hearts and declare that torture is never justified, and ask them: Your young son or daughter has been kidnapped by some degenerate, who buries them in a box below ground. You've caught him, and he sneers that he knows where it's buried, and that there's maybe 5 or 6 hours' air in it. Would you - yes YOU - agree to having him subject to a graduated progression of pain until he tell what he knows? You wouldn't? Bullsh*t; I don't believe it. It's easy to play the "holier than thou" until it hits home personally. (I know; before you say it, that's right out of a Clint Eastwood movie. So what?)

I am also well aware of the claim that torture yields junk. That's a constantly repeated refrain, and it doesn't stand up to examination. Retired CIA and others who subjected captured terrorists in Gitmo to sleep deprivation, isolation, loud music and water boarding have detailed that a) all except one of them were more than ready to spill the beans after only a few seconds of water boarding; b) the one exception, Khalid Sheik Muhammad, took all of 2 minutes before he cracked; c) the information resulted in the rounding up of scores of top-level al-Qaeda and other terrorist members and the prevention of attacks.

John McCain, a true hero and of unquestioned bravery, admitted in his 1999 autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers" how his North Vietnamese interrogators used his injuries to extract information. "Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate," he wrote. "I thought they were bluffing and refused to provide any information beyond my name, rank and serial number, and date of birth. They knocked me around a little to force my cooperation."

The punishment finally worked, McCain said. "Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Recalling how he gave up military information to his interrogators, McCain said: "I regret very much having done so .... the Code of Conduct for American Prisoners of War orders us to refrain from providing any information beyond our names, rank and serial number."
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
Sorry, I seem to have got off track. This is more apposite:

I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself .... I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those workers who produce the wealth. Communism is the goal. ACLU Founder Roger Baldwin.

The American Civil Liberties Union is Roger Baldwin. Former ACLU Counsel Arthur Garfield Hays.

'nuff said.
 

v13311

Silver Level Sponsor
Nick, ...............Nick. Are you O.K.?

I suggest you re-read the instructions under the 'Chit Chat' thread on the Forum home page. This is going to get you nowhere.

ENUFF!

Ed
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
You mean the one that looks like this?

General Chit Chat
Please keep off-topics relating to jokes, politics, and current affairs in this section. Thank you!
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Sorry, I seem to have got off track. This is more apposite:

I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself .... I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those workers who produce the wealth. Communism is the goal. ACLU Founder Roger Baldwin.

The American Civil Liberties Union is Roger Baldwin. Former ACLU Counsel Arthur Garfield Hays.

'nuff said.

All of which means zero. Why was the Republican Party founded? Does it matter? No, same for the ACLU. What does matter is that every time they went to court to allow someone to hand out their propaganda, they strengthened your right to spout off. If the constitution does not apply to those you disagree with, you may discover one day it does not apply to you.

Bill
 
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