Alpine with Miata 1.6L Engine/Trans

[Bill Blue]

The Ford V8 will be a bear to install. The kind of project that "If you have to ask how, you'd better not try." A lot of surgery required.

The Miata will give about a 50% gain in hp over the 1725. Seems to be a straight forward swap. The engine and tranny should even be compatible with Alpine rear. I think it is a winner.

Bill

 

[V6 JOSE]

There is another option. You could go with a Ford 2.8 V6 and build it to where it will outperform even some modified Tigers. The 2.8 V6 fits like a glove and is simple to install. No cutting of important structural members and you will have a great handling, reliable, fun, fast car.

It will cost about the same to convert any non stock four cylinder into your Alpine as it would a V6, but you´ll have more power, smoother running, and better looking conversion. Ask a man that owns one.

Jose

I am trying to decide wether to go with a miata powertrain (I currently drive a '99 miata) or a ford 260/289/302 powertrain for my series 11.I like the dependability of the mazda engine but the lure of greater horsepower with the ford is appealing. Any imput is appreciated.

Pat

 

[Paul A]

I agree! Well said, Jose

Pete

 

[Jay Laifman]

I'm a purist. I went with my Alpine block, but put on all the Holbay stuff, including NOS Holbay head, NOS Holbay cam, custom pistons, lightened flywheel, dual side draft DCOE Webers, '60s custom racing exhaust headers, custom distributor with special weights and springs, etc. I also have a stock SV OD tranny in there. I LOVE the car. Goes like a bat out of hell, has great character. Nothing doesn't work. Nothing gives me problems.

That said, if I had it all to do again, I'd do one of Jose's kits at the drop of a hat.

 

[Bill Blue]

There is another option. You could go with a Ford 2.8 V6 and build it to where it will outperform even some modified Tigers. The 2.8 V6 fits like a glove and is simple to install. No cutting of important structural members and you will have a great handling, reliable, fun, fast car.

It will cost about the same to convert any non stock four cylinder into your Alpine as it would a V6, but you´ll have more power, smoother running, and better looking conversion. Ask a man that owns one.

Jose

Reading the above, makes me wonder. Did you even bother to read lobo1625's posts? Do you read any posts about four cylinder swaps?

Bill

 

[Jay Laifman]

Reading the above, makes me wonder. Did you even bother to read lobo1625's posts? Do you read any posts about four cylinder swaps?

Bill

Wow. That's a bit harsh.

He was responding to PJ62's post - which in fact you had just responded to - that was about engine alternatives.

I think perhaps you should withdraw your post.

 

[PJ62]

Thanks for the imput,I like the idea of not compomising structural integrity to acheive my goals.If I look for a 2.8 V6 are there diferences in years of production that I should look for or avoid.I had beem looking locally for mustang 11 's and what still exists seems to be 302's. What will make a good donor ,perhaps a later model?


Pat

 

[Jim E]

The Ranger 2.8 or non MII motors are a bit better due to a change in the cam bearings. You should be able to find one of these with a stock rebuild on the cheap, then maybe do a cam swap on it for a little more grunt, the head work is a lot of effort, the porting part that is.

This is actually a fairly straight forward swap that does not require a ton of skill and tools.... cut off wheel, bottle jack, welder, BFH.... money.... which if you shop and read and take your time you can save a bit.... been a while since I played this kind of car so some things may have changed for the better/worse I know a few years back it took some time on the www searching on line junk yards to find the MII bits... I am sure that is no easier today...

I have always lusted for a finned Alger.... Chuck has that alger art refined to a fine art as I recall, you should talk to him before deciding if you really want the V8.. I think it will take a bit more welding and tin bending skills but not a whole lot getting the steering and tunnel done and you have it whipped
The over all cost may not be all that much more.

The big thing on these projects is to avoid the dreaded scope creep.... make it stop and make it go then worry about the shiny bits. And avoid rusty cars you are better off to just buy a fixed non rusty car and go from there.... believe me... sell off the bits you do not need and put in the ones you want.

 

[Bill Blue]

Wow. That's a bit harsh.

He was responding to PJ62's post - which in fact you had just responded to - that was about engine alternatives.

I think perhaps you should withdraw your post.

Why? Jose made some pretty extreme claims about power and costs. The OP dropped a running engine and trans combination into an Alpine with very little in the way of purchased "extras" and Jose claims a V6 swap cost would be the same. Do you really believe that? Perhaps he should retract his post, or at a minimum, document his claims.

Yes, I responded to PJ62's post, which was about the Miata and Ford V8. I am proud to say I kept it on subject and was selling nothing.

PJ62 posted a question and got an unsubstantiated sales pitch. I happen to think that is wrong. Maybe I'm on the wrong website.

Bill

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Pat,

You can use a 2.8 V6 from a 1983-1985 Ranger/Bronco II as well. All the necessary parts are available. All you need to do is look on this very forum for them, because there a couple of guys that are selling what is needed.

Not only do you not need to cut structural members, but if you know how to weld, you can have the engine and transmission setting in your Alpine in twenty hours of less. It is a very simple conversion, but takes a bit of time because of the smallness of the tiny engine compartment of your Alpine.

If you really want to know what the owners of the V6 Alpine think, I would suggest asking on the forum for their opinion of their V6 Alpines.

If you would really want a four cylinder conversion, that is your choice, but it won´t be any cheaper, and will take a lot more work and will cost the same if not more than the V6 conversion.

Jose

p.s. To all you V6 owners out there. Would you like to comment on what you think of your converted Alpine so Pat can get an unbiased view of the conversion?

 

[Jim E]

Play nice.... Jay built his car using parts that I would not want to think about finding... Bill your level of fabrication makes me shiver.... Jose's swap uses parts not easy to find... the Miata swap sounds straight forward I will give you that no question.... but then a Rotary swap would be pretty simple too.. the V8 swap is where the sexy is whether anyone wants to admit it or not

 

[Jim E]

Jose,
The V6 is a well balanced car that is a moving violation looking for a place to happen and it will get oh 25 MPG. That said it is not a V8 and does not have the issues the V8 car has over heating poor steering and such, but it is still not a V8 and neither are any of the other conversions again all of which steer stop and cool better.

My old V6 car has just brought back to life and the owner likes it better than any of the hot rod cars him and I have been looking at for me to buy and some of those have been something else. Just looked at a SVT cobra Mustang and for him and me actually it does not compare. Nothing I have looked at will smoke show that way it will...

in the end it is what you want...

 

[Chuck Ingram]

Jose,
...

in the end it is what you want...

Hi Jim and welcome back into the fold.
So true as it is what the onwer wants.I do agree however the V6 conversion does make the alpine a worthy sport car be it a stock 2.8 or a modified 2.8
We loved our V6 car and would drive it anywhere anytime.I did ours in 1979 and fell short of the 200'000 mile attempt by less than 25'000 miles.The engine was just plain tired.
As you know with the Lister clone which I had the 351 windsor in it was an easy decision to go witha Ford racing 302 into the 62.
Saying all that I must caution that to do a V8 conversion does require skills and patience and maybe a good sum of extra bucks to be sure

No Sunbeam projects as I am doing a complete frame up on my son's 1953 Meteor which he was not able to finish.All parts new or rebuilt

 

[Jay Laifman]

My apologies to lobo1625. He has a great thread here about his Miata work. Admittedly, PJ62 hijacked the tread with the questions about alternatives. Bill continued the hijacked thread, as did Jose, then me.

I for one had always thought that Mazda's original design of the 1600cc engine was so cool - so tied to historic engine sizes. Especially today when so many have gone to 1800, 2000 and more (including the Miata).

The thing that makes me shy away from many of these alternatives is the need for custom welding, since I can't do that. I love to do anything and everything I can, and hate to have to find someone else to do part of it - both in the satisfaction and the cost. That's a big part of why I'd think of something else. But admittedly there are probably a lot more go-fast parts, and just plain replacement parts for the Miata than the other options.

 

[George Coleman]

You should be able to find 4.22 chunk that is good to replace the old one . I would check the ring gear bolts first, not to hard to do.

 

[afc742]

lobo1625,
I would like to see some more pictures of your conversion, I have an extra body that when time allows needs to see the road again.
Thanks, Tom

 

[oscar225]

i Agree 100% would love to see more photos of your conversion, This is of great interest this side of the pond, big V6's aren't as common over here and trying to buy reasonably priced examples is difficult.
The Miata (over here they are MX5's) is much more common and therefore a much more affordable conversion, I for one would be extremely interested an any more pictures / advise you could post
Thanks Chris

 

[Bill Blue]

lobo1625 has not signed in for almost two months. It would probably be best to send him an email.

By the way, don't feel bad about your scarcity of big V6's. They won't fit. Nor will most modern fours, especially in their stock configuration. It's getting so the 2.8 V6, the only V6 that will fit, is not all that common in the States. Especially some of the required pieces.

Bill

 

[gordonra]

I've had my V6 for several years and have driven it across the great divide twice as well as locally. It is still in its stock configuration but that is about to change. I love driving it and feel very secure with the stock performance, but it is my toy and keeps me off the street corners at night.

I'm really tired of people that have little interest with actually performing the v6 conversion spouting off about how difficult, expensive, or lack-luster performance.

Within the last three months I've located three 2.8 Mustang engines. Kelly purchased two of them and I purchased the third one today. All three were picked up for unbelievable low prices, and ncluded almost all of the important bits.

So when someone dis-engaged with the V6 conversion starts posting about how rare the parts are, maybe it's because they aren't looking for them????

The question to ask yourself might be is; Why are specific individuals so down on this simple, but huge performance improvement?

Rich

 

[Jim E]

Rich...
sometimes we like to talk to hear our head rattle, sometime we have our own agenda and sometime we don't know our butt from a hole in the ground... I am guilty of all those things, when I built hot rod Alpine motors thought they were the best thing sense sliced bread, even if they did break all the time, then I got on the V6 band wagon and was known to say silly crap about other swaps... just no figuring people buddy we do silly crap