Alpine V8 conversion

[El caballo]

Hi all !! Needless to say, I am new to this forum, and this is my first Alpine. I bought what I consider to be a diamond in the rough. I am basically a hot rod/custom car guy, but have owned a number of sports cars, including an Austin Healy special, MG's, Austin Healy, and a '62 F.I. Corvette...... Okay, don't count the Corvette as a little sports car, but it was fun, and my daily driver for 10 years. I also Vintage raced several sports cars, including the A.H. Special, the Ak Miller Carrera Panamericana racer, and a Crosley Almquist powered by a potent V8-60.....
My Alpine is a "series II" 1967 which had sat for way too many years. Came from Sacramento (I'm in Idaho) and had sat outside for a number of years, having lost it's indoor parking to a Harley..... Looked like hell, but something told me it was nice. Turns out it was. Absolutely no rust, and I mean none, nunca, ziltch.... anywhere. Also turn out it is a one owner, two counting me. They told me the engine was froze up, but I don't think so.
Bad thing is someone had stolen the headlight rings..... Now that's a surprise, huh.....
The reason for purchasing is that a couple years back, I snagged a very nice, completely rebuild, and I mean all new parts, Mercury Caliente 260/ T10 unit. It was going back into the restored Caliente when the owner died. Long story kinda short, the son inherited the car and went with a Windsor/C4.......Ugh !!! So I ended up with the 260.
This leads to the question.... I see lots of swaps into Alpines of 260/289/302 Fords, and all seem to go with the front sump pan, which creates a steering rack issue. Has anyone used a rear sump or double sump pan ??? I haven't torn things apart yet, but it seems that this would make installing a rack in the proper location a lot more feasible....
I am 80 years old, and am doing this to create a fun driver. I'm not looking for a "go-fast" or hard cornering machine... Just a fun car.....
So..... Any ideas ??

So after I got the sunbleached Alpine home, I hit the rear quarter with a little compound and elbo grease... Amazing, right. The original color is BRG, which seems a tad rare on these. Also of note is the wheels are "Shelby's".....

 

[alpine_64]

Welcome to the forum ..

You car is actually a series V ..not a series II.
The car does however have the early series bumper over riders installed and you have an aftermarket fibreglass hardtop.

As for conversions to v8...the sunbeam community is littered with abandoned projects... It's not a straight swap and there is a fair bit of fabrication to the install.. not an issue if you have the skills and time . But it's not a drop in conversion.

There are some threads on it.. be worth searching them for some idea of what's involved.

As for the sump solution... Don't think switching to the rear sump will solve the issue

 

[Asm109]

Suggestions, yes. Forget the V8. It yields a go fast machine with piss poor handling. Not to mention the amount of work is eye watering.
Put a 2.8L Cologne V6 or a NB Mazda Miata engine if you would like fuel injection. Way less work to get a running car.

This advice comes from a Tiger owner who is well aware of the handling drawbacks and the massive differences between and Alpine and a Tiger.

 

[260Alpine]

The horseshoe shaped crossmember is what screws up the ackerman in the Tiger. Front sump pan was all they had back in the day. There are some custom crossmembers for big bucks.

 

[El caballo]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the input.... I completely understand the issues, problems, and benefits.... I would love to go with a V6 or even a KD series Nissan, as lots of my friends run those, but the whole reason for the season is that I have the 260/T10 and it's all new.... Fabrication is not a problem, and again, I'm not looking for a pavement burner. I'm not made of money, but I am 80 and comfortable, so buying a crossmember, or experimenting with a rear sump pan is okay... Even the firewall situation is a simple task. I currently have a Model A coupe with a 260 and love it. Like my older brother would say, it may not be fast, but it sure is loud......
I'll keep the forum posted, and any info on swap parts suppliers would be greatly appreciated.....

 

[260Alpine]

I have pretty much the same setup as you. Nothing wrong with an Alger as long as you don't pass it off as a real Tiger. I have found the cheap stainless tri-y headers on Ebay for early Mustangs fit. You would have to cut the uprights below the braces to copy the Tiger for more room.

Ebay Stainless Tri Y headers

Proof the cheap stainless Tri Y headers fit the Tiger:

forum.sunbeamalpine.org

STAINLESS STEEL TRI-Y HEADER FOR 64-70 MUSTANG 260/289/302 V8 EXHAUST/MANIFOLD | eBay

The exhaust manifolds found in the 1964-1970 Ford Mustang were designed to combine the exhaust gasses from each of the cylinders quickly with a manifold that was cost effective to produce. Tubing has been optimized for the 260/289/302 engines.

www.ebay.com

 

[260Alpine]

Do a search on Fonz/Speedway column and Alladin/GM tilt column for steering mods. They both use MGB rack and pinion as do I. Rack is mounted higher than the tiger and uses MGB steering arms with tie rod ends on top.

 

[DanR]

I have a new recored all copper Tiger radiator available $650 + shipping. And as an aded note the Alpine rear end will not last long with the V8 up front.

 

[alpine_64]

I'm not made of money, but I am 80 and comfortable, so buying a crossmember, or experimenting with a rear sump pan is okay...

The aftermarket cross member is worth about as much as the car will be when finished .... Last check was about 9k iirc

 

[260Alpine]

Look for a 72-75 Jeep CJ5 or Postal Jeep rear axle. Some of the Postal Jeeps are 3.07 most are 3.73 which would need a 5 speed T5.

 

[Aladin Sane]

You can check out my build thread entitled "Now I'm in for it".

 

[260Alpine]

Dan R has the Tiger transmission mount available too. I have these Speedway front motor mounts I'm going to use. Fonz used a front motor plate. The Tiger motor mounts bolt to the steering brackets for the Alpine and just hang there.

 

[260Alpine]

I used Harley visor style headlight rims in my avatar picture. Also, crystal tri-bar H4 headlights.

 

[volvoguys]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the input.... I completely understand the issues, problems, and benefits.... I would love to go with a V6 or even a KD series Nissan, as lots of my friends run those, but the whole reason for the season is that I have the 260/T10 and it's all new.... Fabrication is not a problem, and again, I'm not looking for a pavement burner. I'm not made of money, but I am 80 and comfortable, so buying a crossmember, or experimenting with a rear sump pan is okay... Even the firewall situation is a simple task. I currently have a Model A coupe with a 260 and love it. Like my older brother would say, it may not be fast, but it sure is loud......
I'll keep the forum posted, and any info on swap parts suppliers would be greatly appreciated.....

You may already know this, but if not: The early MKI Tigers were built on a Series IV Alpine chassis. The later MKI (oftentimes referred to as MKIa) and MKII Tigers were built on a Series V Alpine chassis.

Original Tiger rears will bolt directly onto a SV frame without modification. So, too, will the front suspension by using the 4 mounting points used by the Alpine front end. Original Tiger steering is unique to Alpine, but only requires adding a small ring bracket to support the column to the inner fender. The 260 is supported by a pair of specially-made cast iron hangers and use the holes where the Alpine steering mounts. And tho there are other, less extensive tasks, the primary modifications to support a Tiger V8 drive train will be to the firewall and transmission tunnel.

I currently have everything necessary (original Tiger parts) to V8 an Alpine, but Pennsylvania is a long haul from Boise. PM if ya want to chat.

Mark

 

[Bill Blue]

Careful while mounting the MG rack. I got carried away, mounting the rack as high and far back as possible. I ended with no room for a Tiger (or Alpine) radiator. Had to use an aftermarket aluminum crossflow radiator setting on top of the rack. But it all seems to be for the best. My steering geometry is good enough that I can push the car around in the garage with the wheels at full lock. I've heard that turning the Tiger steering to full lock is about the same as applying the parking brake.
Bill
P.S. Not doing a V8, just trying some different ideas to install a Ford Duratech. (four banger)

 

[DanR]

Mr Bill, Perhaps you should have said "reinstalling" Ford Duratech. You did it before very successfully.

 

[Asm109]

Can confirm. Tiger steering with wheels more than half cranked over is impossible for two people to push.

 

[260Alpine]

Bill's adventure with lots of steering geometry info:

DuraPine II

The project is getting underway. DanR delivered the replacement shell Monday. We got it mounted on the rotisserie as there are a few issue to be addressed on the bottom side. It appears the first project is to redesign/remount the rack and pinion steering. It appears to be very wrong. No...

forum.sunbeamalpine.org

 

[El caballo]

I have pretty much the same setup as you. Nothing wrong with an Alger as long as you don't pass it off as a real Tiger. I have found the cheap stainless tri-y headers on Ebay for early Mustangs fit. You would have to cut the uprights below the braces to copy the Tiger for more room.

Ebay Stainless Tri Y headers

Proof the cheap stainless Tri Y headers fit the Tiger:

forum.sunbeamalpine.org

STAINLESS STEEL TRI-Y HEADER FOR 64-70 MUSTANG 260/289/302 V8 EXHAUST/MANIFOLD | eBay

The exhaust manifolds found in the 1964-1970 Ford Mustang were designed to combine the exhaust gasses from each of the cylinders quickly with a manifold that was cost effective to produce. Tubing has been optimized for the 260/289/302 engines.

www.ebay.com

Ironically, I have those same headers on my Model A. Cheap, and work fine. After I bought the 260/T10 combo, I looked for a while for a recipient, and checked out several, including the P1800 Volvo, the Fairlady, and of course the MGB. But, the Alpine seemed right because of size and of course they were already done. I'm too old to try and fool anyone about authenticity, I just want the fun, and sound. How do you like your "Alger" ?? and what rear do you use ??

 

[260Alpine]

Mine is an ongoing project. Working on a 73 MGB with the grandson now. Probably going to use a 7.5 out of a 83-92 Ford Ranger as you only have to narrow one side. 3.07 for the 4 speed.