1725 Series V Head.

[jumpinjan]

The inside diameter of the rings have a chamfered edge...Does that chamfered edge get installed up or down?

The top ring with the chamfered inside edge, faces upward. Why? The exhaust gases will collect there and help increase the ring tension against the cylinder wall.
The second ring will have a chamfer on the outside edge. That one should face downward to scrape the excess oil off the cylinder.
Jan

 

[bernd_st]

Appearantly I overlooked "inside chamfer", so the statement before is correct. On he other hand I checked several new and used top compression rings but none of them shows an inside chamfer. A picture would help...

 

[Jimjordan2]

OK, I had deleted my question before I saw there were any answers. Question was about the installation of rings. The rings were installed when I got the pistons, and there were no directions. When I removed them for sizing the gap, I got confused. (Old, easily confused.) Both rings, the top steel ring, and the 2nd iron ring have chamfers on the inside diameter of the ring. Also, the top ring doesn't have sharp edges like the 2nd ring, they're more rounded off, a smooth finish. Hard to show in the photos. But after taking the pistons back out, I finally see that both of them have Top written on them, so I'm assuming that the "Top" means the top of the piston. The inside chamfers really threw me.

 

[bernd_st]

Nice pictures thanks. Definitely inside chamfers ! Never had any...

 

[Gordon Holsinger]

OK, I had deleted my question before I saw there were any answers. Question was about the installation of rings. The rings were installed when I got the pistons, and there were no directions. When I removed them for sizing the gap, I got confused. (Old, easily confused.) Both rings, the top steel ring, and the 2nd iron ring have chamfers on the inside diameter of the ring. Also, the top ring doesn't have sharp edges like the 2nd ring, they're more rounded off, a smooth finish. Hard to show in the photos. But after taking the pistons back out, I finally see that both of them have Top written on them, so I'm assuming that the "Top" means the top of the piston. The inside chamfers really threw me.

Top means top of the piston they are on correctly

 

[Jimjordan2]

Continuing on, Got the pistons and all installed, and timing gears etc. Installed the oil pump. Everything is looking great.
Not.
The distributor will not fit into the oil pump drive socket. Yes, I was foolish enough to buy it from VB. I have three older oil pumps that are #HE6995 and the distributor fits just fine. But not what they're selling. #907015. Fortunately I skipped the next assembly step of securing the oil pan on, and just tried to test fit the dist. This build has been going sideways ever since I started it.
Arghhh!!!
The timing chain marks are after I did the full rotation for the pump installation.
Pretty sure that's right. But has nothing to do with the dist. not fitting. yeah, yeah, small side to small side. Image 5

 

[husky drvr]

Continuing on, Got the pistons and all installed, and timing gears etc. Installed the oil pump. Everything is looking great.
Not.
. Image 5

Jim,

I'm not sure about the distributor and its fit into the oil pump drive. Maybe if things aren't off center, the careful use of a file might allow fit up.

Image 5 didn't make it.

I realize you are being careful about checking assemblies before final buttoning up, but I thought to bring up the unstaked bolt lock in image 4. Please don't forget to stake it before sealing the timing cover.

 

[absunbeam]

Just wondering if you have the correct cam to match with the distributor. I have a cast iron head 67 1725, Doug jennings was telling me that if I wanted to put an aluminum head on a i would have to change the cam, pump and distributor to do that.

 

[65beam]

Just wondering if you have the correct cam to match with the distributor. I have a cast iron head 67 1725, Doug jennings was telling me that if I wanted to put an aluminum head on a i would have to change the cam, pump and distributor to do that.

Al,
The cast iron head has the intake and exhaust valves reversed on cylinder# 2&# 3 with #1 & #4 the same as the aluminum head so the cam is different as is the distributor. I have what appears to be a new cam for the cast iron head engine. It was in the parts when Jean bought all the fastback parts from Tiger Tom. My cast iron head 1725 had less than 20 K on it so the block was used in one of our other cars and I didn't use the oil pump so I'm not sure about the gears on the cam. I'll have to check the parts books to see if the pumps are the same for the series Alpines and the cast iron head engines.

 

[Jimjordan2]

This was image #5 showing the location of the oil pump slot, only 4 images were originally submitted. Now here's the problem. #6 is an old pump with my dist fitting nicely. #7 is VB new pump with my dist, just won't match up. The hole looking down in #5 is not big enough to accept the pump shaft, and the grooves are not wide enough to accept the "dogs?" "ears?"
Just wrong.
Thanks Don, on that staking of the cam bolt, had forgotten about that. Now I recall that being staked over. Good thing I have an extra gasket. Shat, another thing to re-do.
I'm beginning to think I'm actually that (Dumass Previous Owner) we always hear about.
But, that's what this Forum is all about, helping each other. Thanks all for your patience with me, and all your assistance.

 

[Tom H]

Jim, Put a Q-tip in the pump slot and take a picture as straight on as you can get. That will help visualize the slot offset. It looks to me that the slot is very close to dead center and not offset like it should be. Manufacturing flaw.

Tom

 

[Jimjordan2]

Thanks for the reply Tom, I think the offset is fine. Photo #5, the shaft will not fit down into the pump far enough to get to the slots #7. Plus the slots are too narrow to accept the side "dogs" I dunno, I think you're right bad manufacturing, or for a different car.

 

[65beam]

If the off set is fine then check the distributor shaft for burrs and if there are some then file them off. The same file can be used to clean up the pump shaft to make things fit.

 

[Jimjordan2]

UH, NO, maybe if you somehow turned the distributor shaft down to a smaller diameter, and filed the "dogs" down, or filed the grooves larger. As you can see, the distributor fits fine into the old pump Photo #7. Obviously something wrong with the new pump. Why would you want to "make something fit" when it should fit new?

 

[nsbluenose]

Change end of distributor?

 

[Jimjordan2]

Guys and Gals, just reporting on the build of this engine, not looking for a "fix" of a bad oil pump. Yes, I could change the drive of the "new" oil pump, but why would/should I? Just reporting that the oil pump VB is selling for a Series V does not fit. Thanks again for any advise about this.

 

[Jimjordan2]

This has been the most challenging engine I've ever built. Not just being a 1725, just being an engine. It's finally done. NOT...
Once I put the fan blade on and turned the pump, this is a new water pump, there's a "rub". When I turn the fan blade, there's a definite rub every rotation. Not a squeak, like the impeller is rubbing on a piece of casting or something. I know it will be just that, and probably a file or a bit of sand paper will take car of it, but Arghhhh… Does this mean this will be an incredible engine? Just wanted attention all along and to make sure it's correct? Hope so...

 

[Jimjordan2]

Oh, and the Oil pump? Each time I've built an engine, I've automatically put in a new oil pump. Well with the bad one from VB, decided to go to the WSM and check things out. One of the three were within specs, and when I simply turned it by hand, could fill the suction and pressure. Gamble? Yes, but I think a good one. And I've yet to seal the pan or the timing chain cover if I decide different before installation.
Thanks for all your help guys. This hopefully ends my engine build.

 

[Alpine 1789]

I was able to obtain an NOS pump when I rebuilt my engine, but many years ago Tiger Tom published a tech tip in the TEAE newsletter on how to renew a pump. It remains good advice: https://teae.org/alpine-low-oil-pressure-revisited/

 

[rixter]

Speaking of VB, has anyone ever gotten anywhere with informing them of parts that are incorrect? Some stuff they have is OK, but other stuff clearly is just flat out wrong. Sh%t happens, but one would think they would take customer feedback and if not rectify the situation, just drop that part from their catalog. After several reach outs to them upon receiving incorrect parts over the years, I've never felt they actually cared... and they continue to list the incorrect parts. Maybe we should make a chart of VB parts our members have discovered to be incorrect or inferior to other sources, along with notes and explanations, to advise our community. I'll add the oil pump to my mental list for now if we've concluded their pump is incorrect.

Rick