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V6 installation

J

jzuk7

Donation Time
After taking a few years off from working on my SV, I'm finally getting back to work on it. I'm using Jose's kit, and a T-5 from a 3.8 Mustang. So far, I've widened the tunnel, got the transmission mount in. I’m at the point to weld in the motor mounts.


I have the engine and transmission in the car, and I'm trying to figure out where to weld the mounts. I assume I should have the headers on, and as many parts on the engine as possible to make sure everything is in the correct position. I've been trying to find an article or other threads to help me at this point, but I haven't found anything yet.

What is the best way to get the engine place? Should the headers go on once the engine is in the engine bay? Is there a specific order in which to install the parts? Does anyone have any pictures of the installation?

Thanks,

Joel
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Joel,

The way I do it, is place the transmission, bellhousing and crossmember in the car from underneath. Then put the engine in and bolt it to the bellhousing. Next, you need to put the headers on. You don't need to put anything else on it to find the mounting points. I almost forgot to say you needed to put the motor mount brackets on before the headers. With the engine and transmission bolted together, move the engine back to where you have about .060 inch clearance to the steering arm as it swings by, on the pasenger side. Tighten the transmission mount to where the transmission and engine won't move. Now placve the engine in the middle, so that you have about the same amount of room on either side. I recommend denting the passenger side frame rail about .750 inch, so you get a bit more room for the headers. It is easier if you use a torch to get the metal red and then hitting it with a large ball peen hammer. There isn't much room in the Alpine engine compartment, but it barely fits (about 1/8 inch on each side).

Once you have the engine placed side to side, mark the crossmember through the mounting holes in the mounting brackets. Now you can remove the engine and drill the two mounting holes in the crossmember. I recommend using a center punch to locate the holes properly, then use a smaller drill as a pilot hole, then drill with a drill a little bigger in diameter, than the nut that is welded to the two thick washers. Now place the nuts into the holes, so that the washers sit flat on the crossmember, and you can now weld around the washers and you're done.

It isn't complicated, but it does take a little time to do right. Congratulations on getting started again on your Alpine project. Looking forward to hearing that you have finished it and are driving it.

Jose




jzuk7 said:
After taking a few years off from working on my SV, I'm finally getting back to work on it. I'm using Jose's kit, and a T-5 from a 3.8 Mustang. So far, I've widened the tunnel, got the transmission mount in. I’m at the point to weld in the motor mounts.


I have the engine and transmission in the car, and I'm trying to figure out where to weld the mounts. I assume I should have the headers on, and as many parts on the engine as possible to make sure everything is in the correct position. I've been trying to find an article or other threads to help me at this point, but I haven't found anything yet.

What is the best way to get the engine place? Should the headers go on once the engine is in the engine bay? Is there a specific order in which to install the parts? Does anyone have any pictures of the installation?

Thanks,

Joel
Click to expand...
 
J

jzuk7

Donation Time
Thanks for information Jose. I will have to dent the passenger side frame to make a little more room. Right now the headers touch the frame. Its tight and there is not much room.

Which way do I place the rubber motor mounts? Does the larger mount go between the engine mount and the washer that is welded to the crossmember? Which side of the mount faces up? One side has a short shoulder.

Thanks again
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Joel,

The thicker of the two polyurethane washers, goes between the mounting bracket and the washer you welded into the crossmember. The thinner and smaller diameter washer, goes on top of the bracket, with the smaller washer on top. The thicker mount has a spud that fits into the hole in the mounting bracket, thus it must face up. I suggest cutting off that spud on one of the mounts, because you only need one to locate the engine. If you don't do this, you will play heck trying to get both bolts screwed in. The crossmember isn't flat, and neither are the mounting brackets, so they go in, splayed out at an angle. It can be done, because I have done it before, but why learn how to cuss, trying to get them both in without cutting one of the spuds?

Jose


jzuk7 said:
Thanks for information Jose. I will have to dent the passenger side frame to make a little more room. Right now the headers touch the frame. Its tight and there is not much room.

Which way do I place the rubber motor mounts? Does the larger mount go between the engine mount and the washer that is welded to the crossmember? Which side of the mount faces up? One side has a short shoulder.

Thanks again
Click to expand...
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
I may have missed it in Jose's post but. After the placement and marking for the holes, pull the motor and drill the holes big enough for the nuts on the washers to fit in the hole deal, I then place the washer/nuts in the holes and put the engine back in the car with the rubber bisuctes and bolts and make sure it is in the right spot, then tack weld the washers to the frame. pull the motor and finish weld. if you hang off the back of the cross member washer wise make up some pieces out of exhaust tube to bridge and weld them in place. But I would certainly put the engine in place and check location before welding the frame mounts. Then that may just be me... I know for sure the first time I drilled the holes and stuck the motor and all the bits in place the holes for the nuts on the washers were not in the right spot to get everything to the spot where it all clears.
 
Alpine 1789

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
Jose mentioned that you should "move the engine back to where you have about .060 inch clearance to the steering arm as it swings by, on the passenger side", but I just wanted to be sure this step was emphasized. I remember how carefully Jim took this when he put the motor mounts in my SIV. He turned the steering wheel lock to lock multiple times and made multiple tiny adjustments to be sure that the arms wouldn't touch the engine. Don't neglect or short-change this important step!
 
Y

Yenko

Donation Time
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas...V6,first try.

Hello and Merry Chritmas everyone,

Today I made myself a gift...installing the V6 in is new home,my Alpine...
Now I know exactly what JimE meet when he said: you have a huge smile in your face...cause that's what I had today.
Like everyone of us who's done this before, it's a tight fit...:eek:
I don't know how much time I have checked the clearance in the direction turning lock-to-lock the steering wheel.
Today was a big step but it's not finish...have a lot to do yet...:rolleyes:

But with you guys and gals...it will be easier, thanks for every help you've made in this forum...and if I can help in anything...just ask!!!
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Denis,

I know how happy you feel, because I´ve been there before. The engine looks great sitting in your Alpine almost like it has been there all along. What you have left to do, is very little, because you´ve done the hardest part already.

If you think your smile is big now, just wait till you get to drive it. You´ll have the biggest silly grin you´ve ever seen. Congratulations on getting the engine and transmission installed.

Looking forward to hearing how it perfroms.

Jose
 
Y

Yenko

Donation Time
Pilot bearing question...

Today I was grinding the 'extra' on the MII bellhousing for the Wilwood slave cylinder and suddenly checked the input shaft...and asked myself if it's normal that the input shaft is not that far in the pilot bearing??? There is not much more than .200 of inch that goes in the pilot!!!:confused:
I am using the 1996 V6 Mustang 3.8L T5 + the correct MII cluth & disk.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Denis,

The pilot bearing is about 1.0"+ long, so you could use a pilot bearing puller and pull the bearing out about .125", so you´d have about .300"+ to support the input shaft. Since the stock pilot bearing is a roller needle bearing unit, it will not deteriorate like a bronze bushing would, with just that much of the pilot bearing spud sticking into it.

The pilot bearing is there to keep the end of the input shaft from wobbling, so that it remains aligned with the crank, and not damage the transmission. I have seen this before and it caused no problems.

Jose
 
Y

Yenko

Donation Time
Vacuum reading on my V6...

Hello,

Last weekend, I've started the V6...Everything is OK, nice sound with the Patriot Side-pipes and the idle sound is something!!!:D
One of my concerns is the vacuum reading?? I have the cam with Jose's specs(done by DELTA),an OFFY intake,Holley 390cfm(brand new) with stock jets,4.5Hg PV and the white spring for the secondary, ported heads with 2.9 valves,stock 8.5 pistons...but only manage to have between 5 & 6 vacuum reading at idle(850rpm) and 85°C temp...Is this normal???

Thanks...

Now it's time to install my new 8 inch Ford with 4.10 and the Pinion mounted Park brake...
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Dennis,

The vacuum is bout right, because you have a bit of overlap with that cam. That cam will idle at 800 happily, so not to worry. That cam does sound great, with the slight lope it has, but I'm sure you've found that is is not teperamental on the street either. I'm so glad to hear that you've gotten it running and are happy with it.

Jose
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
The other thing about the low vacuum is it will not open the secondaries on your carb with the spring it came with or at least I doubt it will so you want to check it to be sure they are opening. I know mine were not and the car is a whole lot faster when they do open.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Jim,

You are right. I recommend having the carb adjusted to each V6, because they don't always have the correct jetting for every elevation, and the secondaries need a softer spring, so they open sooner. A customer of mine, who lives in Mexico City, has a carburetor that needs a lot smaller jets, because of the altitude where he lives.

Your carb has been optimised and the performance shows it.

Jose
 
Y

Yenko

Donation Time
Thanks JimE & Jose,

Today I've tune the V6 a bit, re-ajust valves, and find that with a 2.5Hg Power Valve idle is a little better...I live in an area where altitude is equal to sea level.I also find that the secondary don't open with the white spring(lightest), at least when I floor it a second...may be on the road with the longer period of floored, it will open...but I don't think so...I'll modify the white spring to be lighter...
I also install my 8 inch FORD with 4.10 and a TRAC-LOK, modified the battery box for more space for the pinion parking brake.
I'll put some photos tomorrow...
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Looking forward to seeing the pictures. I would love it if you would send me some pictures for my collection.

Jose
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Yenko,

First, the power valve should not have any effect on idle because it should not be open.

Second, I have doubts about a 2.5 in-Hg power valve. Conventional wisdom with Holley carbs and low idle vacuum is to use a power valve rated at about 1.5 in-Hg less than the vacuum at hot idle. You previously said your idle vacuum was 5-6 in-Hg and that would indicate a power valve rated at about 4 in-Hg. IIRC, there is not a 4.0 in-Hg power valve and you would have to use a 3.5 or 4.5 rating (marked 35 or 45).

Holley recommends a power valve rated at 1/2 the hot idle vacuum, but a power valve rated at 2.5 in-Hg will essentially need WOT to open (if then).

The purpose of the power valve is to prevent the air-fuel ratio from going lean at medium-high throttle. The A/F ratio at WOT should be controlled with the secondary main jets (or metering plate).

Just my opinion, YMMV.
 
Y

Yenko

Donation Time
Thanks Barry,
You are absolutely right about the power valve...it's doesn't or should not have any influence on the idle...
But I recently looked a Holley video on Youtube that sayed ...You take your vacuum mesure and divide it by 2 and than you put the closest PV, in my case it's doesn't compute,i.e.: the number is 3...so holley suggest to go with the PV below 3...2.5Hg!:cool:

Anyway, this is the ambryonal tunning of the V6, when the Alpine will be on the road, I'll take more time and iinvestigation on that...

:)
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Yenko,

What ignition advance combination are you using?

Engines with a lot of cam overlap will sometimes respond well to more initial advance than the traditional 10-14 degrees.

Try increasing the initial advance and see if the idle speed and / or vacuum increase. Remember that more initial advance will require less centrifugal advance or you can wind up with way too much total advance. If the engine likes more initial advance at idle, then reduce the amount of centrifugal advance to get the right amount of total advance at WOT.
 
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