• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

No spark frustration

P

Paul67

Gold Level Sponsor
I'm hoping someone has a suggestion.

Hopped in the Alpine today to take it for a spin. It's been 6 weeks since I last started it.
Cranked but would not start.

I changed the distributer cap, coil and the points, condenser and HT lead. I reset the gap.
I get 12v at the coil.
I get spark across the points. But no spark to the plugs.

It would, from time to time in the past, do the same thing but would just get spark again on its own.
So, what is there other than the usual suspects that could lead to intermittent loss of spark?
Possible bad battery (although it tests good)? Bad ground somewhere? I'm all ears.

As I mentioned it has done this for brief periods (20min to maybe an hour) but today 4 hours
trying to get it to start is a first.
 
Scotty

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
Start simple. Test the spark plug wires and distributor cap. If they're not getting spark, there you go.
 
jumpinjan

jumpinjan

Bronze Level Sponsor
Paul67 said:
I get spark across the points.
Click to expand...
Hmm, you see a spark across the points? If so, that might be a heavy load the points are seeing. Like a low primary resistance in the coil.
What does the coil ohm-out to be? I would check the resistance on the coil's primary to start.
Jan
 
P

Paul67

Gold Level Sponsor
jumpinjan said:
Hmm, you see a spark across the points? If so, that might be a heavy load the points are seeing. Like a low primary resistance in the coil.
What does the coil ohm-out to be? I would check the resistance on the coil's primary to start.
Jan
Click to expand...
Scotty said:
Start simple. Test the spark plug wires and distributor cap. If they're not getting spark, there you go.
Click to expand...
The cap,wires,points,ht lead and coil were taken off one of my other Alpines and are known good. Started it right before the swap. Started with the coil. Then then cap, then rotor and finally the points. The spark I saw across the points was from setting the gap with the feeler gauge without turning the key to the off position. I did not swap the plug leads. I will do that. I'm using an inline spark tester on each lead so for them all to be bad seems unlikely.
 
A

Asm109

Donation Time
Pull the coil wire from distributor. Hold end close to block. Crank the engine, look for spark.
Got spark? Y problem is in distributor, rotor, or cap or leads.
 
ernestovumbles

ernestovumbles

Gold Level Sponsor
I had a hairline crack on a rotor a few years ago..

Last part of a chain of bad parts that finally got me going.

50261061231_8aff58aaa0_b.jpg
 
P

Paul67

Gold Level Sponsor
I should have said that I also changed the rotor. I basically took everything one part at a time from the running spares car to this one.
Everything worked on the donor car. I'll take another look at it tomorrow.
Could be the actual distributor, the ignition switch and ignition relay too I suppose? I'll crank it with the HT lead next to the block to see if I get a spark tomorrow.
 
B

beamdream

Gold Level Sponsor
Paul67 said:
I should have said that I also changed the rotor. I basically took everything one part at a time from the running spares car to this one.
Everything worked on the donor car. I'll take another look at it tomorrow.
Could be the actual distributor, the ignition switch and ignition relay too I suppose? I'll crank it with the HT lead next to the block to see if I get a spark tomorrow.
Click to expand...
OK, with what you've already done, plugs - coil - points etc., maybe it's time to work backwards towards the ignition switch, particularly if you've had random faults before. Is there a problem with the switch / connections ?
 
mxp01

mxp01

Platinum Level Sponsor
You said you are using a inline spark tester and seeing spark at each plug correct? If so I would just check to confirm you are getting fuel.

Only need three things:
Fuel
Ignition
Air
 
P

Paul67

Gold Level Sponsor
I changed out the ignition switch. Same symptoms.

The rotor shaft is turning. I know this because I reset the points that I replaced. Cranking the HT lead from the coil to the oil filler cap (only place I can reach bare metal and still see it from inside car as I have no help) the spark seemed very weak.
I presume you should get a good crack and bright spark? But there is a spark.

Again all the parts - coil, points, rotor, cap, ignition switch etc have al been swapped out from my gen running parts car.

So what's between the coil and the ignition switch? Theres that relay bolted to the side of the inner fender by the driver. Perhaps that needs changing.

Maybe I'm getting spark to the plugs and the inlines are just not lighting enough to see in the daylight though I doubt it.

But if that weak yellow spark is good enough then as stated by some members (thank you) then it's still the distributer, cap, internals or leads.
 
A

Asm109

Donation Time
The oil cap is probably not the greatest grounded place in the car. The fact you saw any spark means that ain't yo problem.

Recently I could not get my Tiger to start. Acted like no spark. But when I checked I had good spark.

Problem was the accelerator pump was clogged and stuck.
My normal start routine is let the electric fuel pump fill the carb bowls, give the gas pedal 3 or 4 presses and turn the switch.
Its always moderated temps in SoCal so I don't bother to set the choke.
Once I figured no accelerator pump, I set the choke and the car lit off right away.
 
husky drvr

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
Paul,

You might check this thread and the video link. Might stir some other thoughts.

Also, make sure the small, flexible, fabric covered wire connected to the breaker plate isn't broken. Rare, but possible.

A weak spark from the coil may not have enough energy to also jump the gap from rotor to cap terminal. Could be low voltage or too high of a resistance to and/or through the coil. Famous saying around here: When in doubt, check all grounds and connections. Have you tried to jumper with another known good battery? What series Alpine is giving you issues? What series Alpine donated the parts?

Sunbeam Alpine: Rotor Arm / Pattern parts Problems.

This video shows some of the problems that fitting pattern parts can cause. In this instance it was a pattern rotor arm and distributor cap. This took a lot of detective work to track down. Everything was set correctly and we had fitted what we thought were good quality parts but the cars did...
forum.sunbeamalpine.org forum.sunbeamalpine.org

Just a few thoughts,
 
RootesRooter

RootesRooter

Donation Time
Your plug wires from the old car could be off by 180 degrees. Have you tried spraying some starter fluid into it to see if it 'barks?'
 
B

beamdream

Gold Level Sponsor
Paul67 said:
I changed out the ignition switch. Same symptoms.

The rotor shaft is turning. I know this because I reset the points that I replaced. Cranking the HT lead from the coil to the oil filler cap (only place I can reach bare metal and still see it from inside car as I have no help) the spark seemed very weak.
I presume you should get a good crack and bright spark? But there is a spark.

Again all the parts - coil, points, rotor, cap, ignition switch etc have al been swapped out from my gen running parts car.

So what's between the coil and the ignition switch? Theres that relay bolted to the side of the inner fender by the driver. Perhaps that needs changing.

Maybe I'm getting spark to the plugs and the inlines are just not lighting enough to see in the daylight though I doubt it.

But if that weak yellow spark is good enough then as stated by some members (thank you) then it's still the distributer, cap, internals or leads.
Click to expand...
Weak yellow spark is often sign of a bad condenser or poor earth in , the primary circuit , You may have changed the condensor, but could I suggest changing it again.
 
J

James7

Silver Level Sponsor
Put a test light on negative coil connection and see if it’s blinking when cranking. I put points and condenser in one with the little plastic insulator in wrong and it shorted the coil circuit to ground. Felt stupid because the points came with a paper showing how it went, points I took out were aftermarket and didn’t use that tiny insulating washer
 
J

James7

Silver Level Sponsor
Also you didn’t say anything about your ballast resistor, does it have a bypass circuit from the starter relay? Maybe not getting enough current to coil if you do have a weak spark
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top