Thanks James. I'll take a look at that. Sounds like something I may well have done. Went out in the pitch black with the spark tester last night and no hint of a spark at the plugs.
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Enjoy.
No spark frustration
- Thread starter Paul67
- Start date
Acollin
Donation Time
I think you may have a loose electrical connection. The word “intermittent” Got me thinking of electrical oddities in my two cars. A loose wire or a weekly connected ground could cause things to fire then not And then fire again.
Recheck every thing you touched.
I have had connections look great and when I lifted the wires, a connection fully separated. After securing the connection, all was good to go.
Good Hunting
Recheck every thing you touched.
I have had connections look great and when I lifted the wires, a connection fully separated. After securing the connection, all was good to go.
Good Hunting
Ok loose electrical would seem to be it. Here's the final piece of the puzzle perhaps?
In addition to the originally listed issues, I had an ignition switch that seemed to stick
in the cranking position.
So, all the symptoms as listed except that I also replaced the ignition switch.
The original switch just locked in the cranking position and returning the key to the
off position did not stop it cranking. I had to disconnect the battery.
The issues listed were all prior to the ignition switch quitting.
So, I took the ignition switch from my spare alpine and have been using that to try
to diagnose since my original post.
Today the new ignition switch did the exact same thing. Turned it to start and despite
returning the key to the off position the engine continued to crank. I disconnected the
battery. At this point I'm thinking of just shutting the garage door and looking at it again
in perhaps 10 years. I'm so over it honestly.
In addition to the originally listed issues, I had an ignition switch that seemed to stick
in the cranking position.
So, all the symptoms as listed except that I also replaced the ignition switch.
The original switch just locked in the cranking position and returning the key to the
off position did not stop it cranking. I had to disconnect the battery.
The issues listed were all prior to the ignition switch quitting.
So, I took the ignition switch from my spare alpine and have been using that to try
to diagnose since my original post.
Today the new ignition switch did the exact same thing. Turned it to start and despite
returning the key to the off position the engine continued to crank. I disconnected the
battery. At this point I'm thinking of just shutting the garage door and looking at it again
in perhaps 10 years. I'm so over it honestly.
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Did you diagnose why the starter continued cranking? It could be your starter solenoid and not the ignition switch. I'd start with some continuity tests on the ignition switch with the key in the various positions. You should disconnect the power connection (brown wire) to the ignition switch when doing the tests.
No key in / off position - 1 should not be connected to 2, 3, or 4.
"Run" should connect 1 & 2.
"Start" should connect 1 & 2 & 3 I believe.
Accessory should connect 1 & 4
Mike
No key in / off position - 1 should not be connected to 2, 3, or 4.
"Run" should connect 1 & 2.
"Start" should connect 1 & 2 & 3 I believe.
Accessory should connect 1 & 4
Mike
SOLVED!!!!
Thank you, Mike!!
All of those symptoms came back to the starter solenoid.
I swapped out the relatively brand new shiny one for the older than the hills,
over-sprayed green, original one from the donor and she started first crank!!!
I was starting to think that I'd forgotten how to change points and condenser.
It's funny how these old cars can have you scratching your head and doubting
yourself sometimes.
Thank you, Mike!!
All of those symptoms came back to the starter solenoid.
I swapped out the relatively brand new shiny one for the older than the hills,
over-sprayed green, original one from the donor and she started first crank!!!
I was starting to think that I'd forgotten how to change points and condenser.
It's funny how these old cars can have you scratching your head and doubting
yourself sometimes.
Great news!
I am curious about your replacement starter solenoid. The replacement starter solenoids usually aren't setup to support the cold weather starting circuit provided by the original starter solenoids. Do you have the white + green wire that goes from the starter solenoid to the ignition coil? If yes, how was it wired up when you were using the replacement starter solenoid?
Mike
I am curious about your replacement starter solenoid. The replacement starter solenoids usually aren't setup to support the cold weather starting circuit provided by the original starter solenoids. Do you have the white + green wire that goes from the starter solenoid to the ignition coil? If yes, how was it wired up when you were using the replacement starter solenoid?
Mike
Both solenoids were essentially identical. ( 2 main posts and two blade connections) the car with the issues did indeed have the white and green wire. There is also an extra brown wire that attaches to one of the main posts on the car that was having issues. This was missing on the donor car but again the difference was the car wiring not the actual solenoids.
I hope this makes sense??
I hope this makes sense??
Solenoids can be something to deal with. I had an uncle whose1975ish AMC would suddenly die, but would always restart. Several thousand dollars went into mechanics pockets, along with new carb, fuel tank, lines, you name it. One night as he started it up to go home, the starter just kept engaged after the start. I whipped out my trusty Case Stockmans pocket knife and cut the battery wire in two. He replaced the Ford "on the fender style" solenoid and battery wire. The car never stalled again.
Bill
Bill
Only thing the solenoid would have to do with spark is the bypass circuit that sends battery voltage to coil during cranking. Some guys don’t even use that on their cars from what I have seen on other posts. Glad you got it going. A good solenoid will stick engaged when the battery voltage is low too.
So as I mentioned the car now runs.
One thing I did notice when looking at a post about starter
solenoids was that my wiring is not the one I saw pictured.
What I was seeing in the post was the white/ green wire going
from the solenoid to the coil. I have this and it will start either
with or without it connected as its basically a cold weather "booster"
and not really needed.
Where mine differs is where the white and red wire connects - that's
all I have. Looking at image posted here I'm seeing two brown wires
on the same run as the that white/red wire which then connect to the post
that heads back to the battery.
On my car those 3 wires (2 brown and one White/Red) come
out of the bulkhead the white/red separates and feeds to the
starter solenoid and the two brown wires just disappear back into the
bulkhead. No connectors on them. Just looped back inside as far as I can see.
Anyway, back to the car. Like I said it now starts right away.
Yesterday after letting it idle and freeing the brakes (stuck from sitting)
and putting air in the tires I opened the gate to take her for a run and
the headlights quit working.
The car was idling for about 20 mins with the headlights on before
they cut out. Realizing that she didn't want to play I parked her up again
and left it for the night.
Today I saw that the fuse was blown closest to engine. I changed it and it
blew instantly. 2 more fuses same result. I can't imagine that it had
anything to do with the solenoid as it was running for 20 min with
the headlights on.
I'm guessing a short somewhere that I need to find.
One thing I did notice when looking at a post about starter
solenoids was that my wiring is not the one I saw pictured.
What I was seeing in the post was the white/ green wire going
from the solenoid to the coil. I have this and it will start either
with or without it connected as its basically a cold weather "booster"
and not really needed.
Where mine differs is where the white and red wire connects - that's
all I have. Looking at image posted here I'm seeing two brown wires
on the same run as the that white/red wire which then connect to the post
that heads back to the battery.
On my car those 3 wires (2 brown and one White/Red) come
out of the bulkhead the white/red separates and feeds to the
starter solenoid and the two brown wires just disappear back into the
bulkhead. No connectors on them. Just looped back inside as far as I can see.
Anyway, back to the car. Like I said it now starts right away.
Yesterday after letting it idle and freeing the brakes (stuck from sitting)
and putting air in the tires I opened the gate to take her for a run and
the headlights quit working.
The car was idling for about 20 mins with the headlights on before
they cut out. Realizing that she didn't want to play I parked her up again
and left it for the night.
Today I saw that the fuse was blown closest to engine. I changed it and it
blew instantly. 2 more fuses same result. I can't imagine that it had
anything to do with the solenoid as it was running for 20 min with
the headlights on.
I'm guessing a short somewhere that I need to find.
husky drvr
Platinum Level Sponsor
Do you have an ammeter by any chance?
British wiring convention was that brown wires were always hot and unfused.
I'm not quite following your comment about no connectors on the brown wires and just disappearing back into the bulkhead.
Here is a picture of my series V starter solenoid before I modified my wiring to add an ammeter. I believe this was the stock wiring setup when not having an ammeter.
1. White / green wire that goes to the ignition coil + connection.
2. White / red wire that goes to the ignition switch.
3. Large brown wire that goes to the alternator B+ connection.
4. Two brown wires that are connected into a single spade connection on the starter solenoid. One wire goes to the fuse box terminal 1. The other wire goes to the alternator relay.
So for #4, those wires go into the wiring harness, but don't go back through the firewall.
It sounds like you have a short that is blowing the fuse. The fuse closest to the engine is not used on a series 5 ST. It is used on a GT, but I don't think series 5 GTs were sent to the USA or Canada. Do you have any idea what is connected to that fuse? Stock fuse box setup below.
Mike
I'm not quite following your comment about no connectors on the brown wires and just disappearing back into the bulkhead.
Here is a picture of my series V starter solenoid before I modified my wiring to add an ammeter. I believe this was the stock wiring setup when not having an ammeter.
1. White / green wire that goes to the ignition coil + connection.
2. White / red wire that goes to the ignition switch.
3. Large brown wire that goes to the alternator B+ connection.
4. Two brown wires that are connected into a single spade connection on the starter solenoid. One wire goes to the fuse box terminal 1. The other wire goes to the alternator relay.
So for #4, those wires go into the wiring harness, but don't go back through the firewall.
It sounds like you have a short that is blowing the fuse. The fuse closest to the engine is not used on a series 5 ST. It is used on a GT, but I don't think series 5 GTs were sent to the USA or Canada. Do you have any idea what is connected to that fuse? Stock fuse box setup below.
Mike
Mike.
On my solenoid I have everything except #4.
Those wires just loop back to the firewall/bulkhead
and disappear....or so it seems.
That's how it was when I bought the car.
I've been driving the car that way for 3-4 years.
My fuse block has 3 green wires on the same post as yours
and one green wire on the "unused" side.
Thats the fuse that's blowing.
I presumed that was the headlight feed as all the other lights still work.
Let me get a flashlight and go explore.
On my solenoid I have everything except #4.
Those wires just loop back to the firewall/bulkhead
and disappear....or so it seems.
That's how it was when I bought the car.
I've been driving the car that way for 3-4 years.
My fuse block has 3 green wires on the same post as yours
and one green wire on the "unused" side.
Thats the fuse that's blowing.
I presumed that was the headlight feed as all the other lights still work.
Let me get a flashlight and go explore.
Ok. So the green wire went to a switch under the dash that didn't seem to
be connected to anything. I pulled the wire from the fuse block and no more
blown fuses. I'm leaning towards the light toggle switch being bad. I do remember
when I first got the car that it would take a few clicks on and off the get the headlights
working. That hasn't been an issue for the last 3-4 years, but it has been sitting for
6 months or more.
The brown wires #4 do indeed loop back into the firewall. I tried to take a picture but
what happens is the 2 wires that you have, on my car, instead of terminating at the solenoid,
are connected to another single brown wire poking out the firewall.
It looks as though the original two are spliced into one. Very odd.
Thanks again for all of the help everyone. Ill
be connected to anything. I pulled the wire from the fuse block and no more
blown fuses. I'm leaning towards the light toggle switch being bad. I do remember
when I first got the car that it would take a few clicks on and off the get the headlights
working. That hasn't been an issue for the last 3-4 years, but it has been sitting for
6 months or more.
The brown wires #4 do indeed loop back into the firewall. I tried to take a picture but
what happens is the 2 wires that you have, on my car, instead of terminating at the solenoid,
are connected to another single brown wire poking out the firewall.
It looks as though the original two are spliced into one. Very odd.
Thanks again for all of the help everyone. Ill
It's not the easiest thing to see but as I said, instead of those 2 brown wires terminating at the solenoid
they go under it and are wrapped in electrical tape. Then those wires are spliced into one brown wire heading
back into the firewall. This picture shows the wire they are spliced to. It's the only wire partially wiped of dirt.
Obviously, I unbolted the solenoid to get this picture.
they go under it and are wrapped in electrical tape. Then those wires are spliced into one brown wire heading
back into the firewall. This picture shows the wire they are spliced to. It's the only wire partially wiped of dirt.
Obviously, I unbolted the solenoid to get this picture.
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