Is it me !

[lgurley]

What does "stock" mean?

So why didn't I see any stock cars at the Stock Car Races?

 

[Lee DeRamus saoca0404]

I think we may have lost track of where this thread was going. If I understand correctly, John was not starting a debate over whether stock was better than modified. I think he was just saying that we might be asking modified questions in a stock forum. In that case he is right but I don't think there would be a great many who have not done at least some mods whether it is tire size, paint color, carbs, electronics or maybe something else to make the car run better.
To be absolutely correct we should have Stock, Modified and Super Modified or Darksiders.
On the other hand maybe the moderators should ban us for posting in the wrong forum. Naw, that might be too severe.

Here, Here, Larry,
With no disrespect to anyone, I think that this forum should not use the same standards as a concours event. I look to the "STOCK ALPINE" section because I don't want to wade through all of the information about engine or transmission swaps. I agree that "STOCK" should be as they came out of the factory. I also have a 1955 Jag XK140 Fixed Head Coupe that I bought in 1965. I am the third owner. I would never think of changing a thing on it. I have driven it across the US in the past (a long time ago). But the Alpine is a "fun" car. I want to keep it running and reliable for as long as I can. I think Larry has a point about another catagory,,,, My vote is for "Darksiders".
Lee

 

[Sownman]

We need to allow folks to do what they want to, without having/trying to understand them.

Jose

Thanks for your explanation but I think it's my choice on wanting to understand. Certainly anyone that holds the title to a car can do anything they wish to modify it, or restore it, or destroy it, their choice.

 

[alpine_64]

I know that some guys do drive their Alpines every day and enjoy them with their sewing machine engine, but I can´t handle that. I need a high performance car,
Jose

now Jose.. i extend an invitation for you so come test out my "sewing machine" .. i dare you to deny the enjoyment in the sound it makes.. the looks and while its not got v6 grunt... its got enough poke to make you smile.. and the sound is more than adequate.



BTW.. you will have noticed all my posts on my car generally go in modified section.. polished parts.. holbay webers etc.. but its all period and all rootes

 

[SIVAllan]

Michael,

Your "sewing machine" is almost exactly what I want to put in my SIV and am assembling parts.

As for the British 4 cylinder car sound, I've have several folks compliment the SIV on "how it sounds."

It's not V8, not V6 and not US.

It's a 40+ year old British 4 banger!

Yippee!

 

[Ron67Alpine]

As a newbie to the Alpine, I think I gotta agree w/Duke. When I walked to high school, in the late 60's, I passed a little used car lot, that only had little sports cars. I saw MG's and Triumphs, and since I was walking and riding a bicycle, I wanted one, but couldn't afford the $800-1200 price tag. In later yrs, several friends had trashed out MG's and Trumpets, and still thought they were cool little cars, but I could still only afford $50-250 cars.
30yrs go by and I wanted a new project. I'd put together a couple of classic bikes and wanted a little convertible sports car. I asked my boneyard buddy, if he came across a little MG or Triumph, in decent condition, to let me know. When he told me he knew someone that was getting rid of a Sunbeam Alpine I didn't know what kind of car he was talking about...I'd never heard of it. I doubt I would have even considered it, if he hadn't told me what nice car's they could be (he has a couple) and I trust his judgement.
As far as what is "stock", I don't particularly care. I don't have the time, money or inclination to restore it to an exhibit piece. I want a good safe, reliable, fun daily driver, w/better gas milage than my Cherokee. Right now it's probably pretty close to "stock", but if I have to replace the fuel pump w/electric, radial tires or replace the duel Strombergs w/a single Solex or any other system, to get a more reliable car, I'll do it. Same w/buying from VB rather than another, "more correct", merchant due to money restraints.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth, and I'll try to post to the correct forum, when I modify w/anything that's "non-stock".
Ron

Easy answer here - MG had great marketing in the 60's, Sunbeam did not. How many of you have been asked about "what year is your MG"? I even have a bumper sticker (from our Austrailian friend) that states "This is Not and MG".

Many of those paying the relative big money, compared to an Alpine, for a MGBs is because their Dad, Brother, Mother, Uncle, Aunt or they themself had one in earlier days. In High School (1982-1985) my friends and I drove MGs (B,C and Midget), Triumphs, Fiats etc. I knew no one that had or had seen an Alpine. All of the salvage yards I went to for LBC parts did not have any Alpines in them either.

Your answer is marketing and sheer numbers of cars. Alpines may be better cars than an MGB but few people know what they are or have a strong desire to relive better days in one.

 

[alpine_64]

Michael,

Your "sewing machine" is almost exactly what I want to put in my SIV and am assembling parts.

As for the British 4 cylinder car sound, I've have several folks compliment the SIV on "how it sounds."

It's not V8, not V6 and not US.

It's a 40+ year old British 4 banger!

Yippee!

Allan,

The motors are really fun with this setup.. also mine sounds different to a normal 4 banger.. has a very deep sound.. which i assume has a lot to do with the DCOE's and high comp quite a bit different from a stock alpine.

 

[puff4]

I gotta put my vote in for originality, too. There is nothing like the sound of an English sports car as it was originally designed... it gives it real character and charm. Yeah, they weren't the fastest or even the most reliable motors (though if you maintain them properly they are surprisingly solid machines)... but hey, if you want something simple and reliable, buy a Honda. And the smell of an old English car interior is like nothing else on earth - my Triumph smells just like 1949 - the wood, leather and wool combine to give a heady scent of vintage motoring. I gave an elderly English lady a ride in it one time and it brought tears of remembrance to her eyes - the smell brought back memories of her and her late husband's first car which they bought just after the war. Vinyl and plastic just don't do that.

 

[Green67Alpine]

And the smell of an old English car interior is like nothing else on earth - my Triumph smells just like 1949 - the wood, leather and wool combine to give a heady scent of vintage motoring.

Aint that the truth, My car is up on stands for the time being, but every time I walk by I just gotta stick my head in and inhale, old car aroma ...wonderful !

Tom j

oopps wrong thread !

 

[lgurley]

Aint that the truth, My car is up on stands for the time being, but every time I walk by I just gotta stick my head in and inhale, old car aroma ...wonderful !

Tom j

oopps wrong thread !

Tom,
I thought Alpines came with stands. I didn't know they were an after market item.

 

[Bill Blue]

That said what I don't understand is why people who are not hampered by budget concerns buy 60's era cars and try to turn them into modern cars with different brakes, engines, transmissions, suspensions,and wheels etc. If you don't really like Alpines or Tigers or any other vintage car for that matter why not buy something else ?

For me, it is about being creative and solving problems, not about not liking the car or buying something else. Sort of like asking an amateur artist why he messes around with those paints, why not go out and buy something good?

Sometimes there is the need to have your own creation. That need is sometimes taken to an extreme. I could have purchased one of Jose's kits and been on the road several years earlier with a whole lot less effort. But I would be driving Jose's creation, not mine.

The satisfaction is powerful. I decided to upgrade the Alpine's brakes using OEM parts. I ended up with Pontiac Grand Prix rotors, Chevy Malibu calipers, Speedway Motors adapter, Nissan master cylinder with Saturn rear rotors and calipers. Add in a couple handfuls of special made parts and modifications. The whole thing works beautifully and is the only one in the world. Every time I stop I get a reminder of all the sweat, thought, creativity and the friendship of Barry that made them a reality. Its the best feeling in the world.

Bill

 

[Sownman]

Bill...

Thanks for the explanation. My understanding is a bit better even though I must say I don't agree.

It is my opinion that if I wanted to take an Alpine to the maximum (within reason) sophistication and performance I'd end up with something very similar to a new S2000 Honda. Good gas mileage, 2 seat, 4 cyl, open roadster, very fast, good handling and braking, stiff chassis. S2000 can be had for just over $30K. I could try to put all that perfomance into an Alpine chassis but it would probably cost more than $30K and still not equal a new Honda.

BTW I own an S2000. My S2000 is about 1.5 seconds faster to 60MPH than my stock Mk1 Tiger, but it doesn't feel it because of it's smoothness and lack of torque. It has no soul.

I am very new to the vintage car world but when I looked at entering it I wanted the experience of my youth again. I wanted to own, drive, and work on a car that was born in the days when cars still had soul. I look at Brit cars of over 40 years old as bits of history and part of my heritage. I look at them as things to be enjoyed and driven but also preserved for the future so people will know what 60's Brit cars were like.

Would you take a Civil War sword and improve it's blade shape to pierce better then remove it's poor grip and replace with aluminum and neoprine for weight saving and improved grip then chrome it for improved appearance?

I kind of see alterations of classic cars the same way. However as I said in my last post if you own it you have every right to do what you feel.

 

[lgurley]

Bill...


Would you take a Civil War sword and improve it's blade shape to pierce better then remove it's poor grip and replace with aluminum and neoprine for weight saving and improved grip then chrome it for improved appearance?

.

If I wanted it as a museum piece the answer is no.If I planned to use it for the purpose it was intended I would modify it to the max so that it would do a good job without getting me hurt or killed. Thank goodness most of us don't fight with swords any more but we do drive our Alpines.
There is no right or wrong there is just a difference in how we intend to use them

 

[V6 JOSE]

I don´t think you are living in the real world. No matter how much you modified your Alpine, you would never even come close to how a S2000 performs. On the other hand, Jim Ellis has blown off one of those in a straight line, and I would wager that his Alpine would handle as well as the S2000 on a slalom course.

You like stock, and that is good for you, but in your response, I sense a bit of disdain for anyone who would desecrate an icon like the stock Alpine. There will always be a few stock Alpines, and I agree with you that there should always be stock ones. We don´t want to see the history of the marque disappear. What I don´t like to see, is someone criticising someone else because they had the temerity to express themselves through their modification of their own Alpine. No one here is God, to know exactly what anyone else should do.

If you don´t want to rouse strong opposition, just allow others to do as they wish with their cars, without commenting. No one is criticising those who want to worship what the factory made 40 years ago. I have already expressed my opinion of the wisdom of keeping it stock and trying to depend on the car every day, rain or shine. What you think of modifiers, I think of those who don´t agree. I never comment on their choice and I think the guys don´t appreciate disaproving comments about their choises either.

Your analogy doesn´t even fit. A Japanese sword is a true collectors item, where the Alpine is just an inexpensive , enjoyable sports car. They don´t even come close to being the same thing.

Jose

 

[Sownman]

I, and I agree with you that there should always be stock ones. We don´t want to see the history of the marque disappear. What I don´t like to see, is someone criticising someone else because they had the temerity to express themselves through their modification of their own Alpine. No one here is God, to know exactly what anyone else should do.

If you don´t want to rouse strong opposition, just allow others to do as they wish with their cars, without commenting. No one is criticising those who want to worship what the factory made 40 years ago. I have already expressed my opinion of the wisdom of keeping it stock and trying to depend on the car every day, rain or shine. What you think of modifiers, I think of those who don´t agree. I never comment on their choice and I think the guys don´t appreciate disaproving comments about their choises either.

Your analogy doesn´t even fit. A Japanese sword is a true collectors item, where the Alpine is just an inexpensive , enjoyable sports car. They don´t even come close to being the same thing.

Jose

Once again Jose we seem to have a problem. Whatever disdain you read is your imagination and if I choose to comment thats my choice not yours. I don't apprecite being told first I shouldn't try to understand and now that on a public discussion board I shouldn't comment.

I've said in back to back posts that anyone who holds title has every right to do what they want. I'm not sure why you don't see that. As far as what is a collector item or what should be treated like one that again is personal opinion and I don't think I need to be told what is or isn't. You feel I'm telling others what to do with their cars and resent that, but I'm not. In response you tell me what to understand, what I can comment on, and what is a collectors item.

Now I repeat for the third time feel free to do what ever you want with your car(s). I will continue to try to keep my swords and car(s) in a condition as best as I can afford like they were created.

Regards

Steve

 

[lgurley]

Enough Already

As I stated before this is a debate that will never be won. There is no right and wrong on this topic. I will not comment again because the comments just breed animosity. I know that everyone is free to comment but please don't

 

[Sownman]

As I stated before this is a debate that will never be won.

Agreed.

Just trying to get a better understanding of why people do what they do. Did not intend to ruffle anone's feathers. I never understood hot rods either. Thanks to a couple posts I understand better.

Steve

 

[puff4]

Hey, how about them Mets?

 

[Series6]

Hey, how about them Mets?

Hey! How 'bout them Cardinals?! Go Big Red!

 

[puff4]

Well, if you're gonna go and get all serious about it, then GO HAWKS!