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Engine miss

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by Eleven, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    There is still oil residue left in the engine when you drain it. If your oil doesn't turn dark that's when you need to worry. It's picking up containiments in the engine when it gets dark.
     
  2. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    I've had this slow start problem with our cars and one of the best things I did per the suggestion of Doug Jennings was to install the electric facet fuel pumps. They are 1.5 to 4 PSI pumps. Turn on the switch and fuel to the carb, the car starts after a few turn overs. I mount them to the up right portion of the floor in front of the battery box. The pump is well protected in that area.
     
  3. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Tracy, Ugh, and Bah. Sorry to hear the state of your Alpine. Wish I could help. Keep us up to date on how it goes.

    Bob, I agree it's not really important about the wire colors, as long as we get it wired correctly. And I really don't know where to get the correct color wires. But I have always assumed that any "original" style harness like supplied by Sunbeam Specialties had the same color wires as the original factory harness. My comments were mainly to try to eliminate any confusion any reader of this thread might have about the extra wire on most Series 5's imported to the US. That extra wire, not shown in the WSM main wiring diagram, goes from the solenoid to the coil, bypassing the ballast resistor, to apply full battery voltage to the coil while the starter is cranking the engine. The photo of the red car you posted above is perfect and the best picture I have seen that shows the original factory wiring of the coil and ballast resistor. I am still wondering if this red car is one of yours, since you earlier noted that none of your Series 5's has this "cold start" wire.

    Tom
     
  4. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Diamond Level Sponsor

    Cars do not wear out quickly. Good chance you have stuck rings. Also, why do you insist on ignoring the fact it is running lean? That alone will make it run poorly.

    Bill
     
  5. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    Tom,
    This red car is in the Dayton area. It has been in the S.W. Ohio area for quite a few years. I think the previous owner may have posted here from time to time. Jean's series 5 was a California car we bought from one of SS long time customers and it did not have the wire from the solenoid to the coil when she bought it 25+ years ago. No evidence of the clips across the bulkhead. Was this extra wire used only on cars shipped to areas that have cold temps in the winter? As far as the new wiring looms, the Brits must not have availability of the correct colors or they would use them. I'm not new to the wiring and I did a little head scratching and second looks when I unpacked the wiring for the RHD. Several of the wires to the regulator are also yellow and required some sorting out. I installed a new harness in the series 4 about five years ago and everything as far as color was correct. I used a series 5 harness since everything on the car is the same as a series 5. If we drove any of the cars in colder weather it might be beneficial to have the extra wire but since they go into hibernation in early October and emerge usually late March I have no need for this extra wire to the coil.
     
  6. Eleven

    Eleven Gold Level Sponsor

    Tom, BritishWiring .com has a huge selection of original wires including cloth wrapped. I bought just about every color combo when I redid my GT6.
    Bill: Good question but I did not really ignore it. I rejetted the Weber to factory specs and it has cleaned up the lean issue. Some of the jets were too small. Runs fine on the new settings, adjusts better just not the way it should. A bit like a stage 2 cam but not as clean. What is a stuck ring?

    I am giving serious thought to pulling the head and having a valve job done. If I rebuild I will have to anyway. With the drop in compression across the board, it is very slightly possible that I have burned some valves with the previous lean running. (was not totally lean, just borderline). Be unusual to burn all of them but worth a look.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  7. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Tracy, just to be sure, you DID do your compression test with all the plugs removed, right?
     
  8. rixter

    rixter Platinum Level Sponsor

    British Wiring https://www.britishwiring.com/ has all the color combinations in all of the various strand counts. I do find that adhering to the colors on the original wiring diagrams makes sense to yourself and to the next guy that may have your car when working on standard components. Of course when working with non-standard Alpine add-ons (electric fuel pumps, gauges with sensors, other modern accessories, etc.), you may have to find colors that are not the common ones so as not to confuse matters in the future. So for example I wouldn't use red, white, brown, green, red/white, blue/red, green/white, blue/white, brown/purple, brown/black, yellow/brown to hook up an accessory gauge sensor because these are colors that are commonly used for other circuits. So I'd either search for a unique color or perhaps use green/black or blue/green that are used for other sensors. Likewise I wouldn't use any color but black to represent ground. British Wiring even has colors like slate, pink and light green that wouldn't compete with common colors when you install non-common components.

    Rick
     
    puff4 likes this.
  9. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Diamond Level Sponsor

    A stuck ring is a ring that has is no longer free to float in its groove. Sometimes a "mechanic in a can" type of solvent will free them. Rislone is one product. The sure fire way is to remove the pistons and free them, using solvent and TLC. Low compression will not make it run poorly, just down on power. Uneven compression will make it run raggedly.

    Bill
     
  10. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    If you look close at the photos on British Wiring you'll see that even the over drive wiring uses yellow wire instead of white. The picture of the series 2 harness shows the wires for the charging circuit to be yellow instead of brown. Brown wires have power any time the battery is connected. So why don't they use brown? British Wiring is in Pennsylvania so maybe they have no source for correct colors. Why change colors?
     
  11. rixter

    rixter Platinum Level Sponsor

    Bob,
    I was making reference to the individual wire products. I was not aware of their harnesses not matching the standard wiring diagrams and that is important to know and for you to point out. Thank you.
    Rick
     
  12. Eleven

    Eleven Gold Level Sponsor

    Ah, no Tom. Just one at a time. How would all change the numbers? I will try it that way now and see if there is a difference.
     
  13. Eleven

    Eleven Gold Level Sponsor

    Thank you Bill
     
  14. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    I didn't see any mention of the cap being new. ??
     
  15. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Tracy, only with all plugs removed will the engine crank as fast as expected to generate the expected compression figures. See this on page B19 in WSM

    COMPRESSION PRESSURES An engine In good condition should give the compression pressures given In the Data Section under "Engine - General". These pressures should be taken at starter cranking speed with the throttle held fully open, all sparking plugs removed and the engine hot. If readings are obtained substantially below these quoted, the engine concerned is in need of attention to the valves or piston rings, or possibly requires reboring.
     
  16. puff4

    puff4 Gold Level Sponsor

    I made a simple leak-down test tool from an old spark plug, a very short threaded 1/4” NPT metal pipe nipple, a 1/4” NPT (female) ball valve and a 1/4” NPT male air hose fitting. Don’t have a photo to show you mine as it’s at my home shop and I’m at the NY cottage now, but to make your own you gut the spark plug of all ceramic stuff, clip off the ground loop, tap it with a 1/4” NPT tap for the bit of pipe, thread in the pipe nipple, thread the valve onto the pipe, then thread the male air fitting into the valve. With this tool you can now insert pressurized air into each cylinder. Thread it into #1 spark plug hole, put the crank at exactly TDC compression stroke, and connect it to your air. As you open the valve you will hear air rushing in... listen (using a piece of hose to your ear) for it leaking out at the carburettor, exhaust pipe and oil fill. This will allow you to diagnose if you’ve got a bad intake or exhaust valve, or bad rings. Do the rest of the cylinders in sequence (1, 3, 4, 2) with the crank at TDC for each cylinder’s compression stroke. This is a very good method for diagnosing such leaks.

    On edit: those connections might be 1/8” NPT - I can’t recall - but the size needed will be obvious once you gut the spark plug.
     
  17. Eleven

    Eleven Gold Level Sponsor

    Dang it Tom, it's cheating reading the instruction sheet!!! tomorrows project is to redo the compression check.

    Seriously clever Kevin! You've also ruined my excuse for not doing that!
     
    puff4 likes this.
  18. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Bob,

    I think the Brits did a pretty good job of logical use of colors in wiring. I think many (most? all?) British cars of our Alpine Series era used the same colors. Indeed Brown means direct connection to the battery- no switch, no fuse between that wire and the battery. The green circuit is fused but not controlled by the ignition switch. And the white circuit is controlled by the Ign switch. They used Yellow wire for much of the charging circuit because the charging circuit is not directly connected to the battery, because the Control Box stands between the battery and that circuit. On later Series, they changed that color code to make the charging circuit some variation on Brown, using a blue or yellow tracer on brown wire. That way the brown color tells the mechanic "live to battery" and the color tracer says "sort of, depending on state of something, like the Control Box". Similar tracers on the Green circuit and White circuit add additional notation to those circuits. I wonder if they stopped using Yellow for the charging circuit to "free up" Yellow for the Overdrive. circuit As the cars added electrical items and controls, it becomes a bit challenging to maintain that basic Brown, Green, White circuit convention, but I'm still impressed by the color coding they used.

    I'm glad you (and Doug) have used as much original wiring color as possible on your cars. And note that Alpines do use a white wire for supply TO the Overdrive, but then they use Yellow or Yellow w tracers for all the Overdrive circuit past the Overdrive ON/OFF or Gearbox switch.

    Tom
     
    puff4 likes this.
  19. Mike O'D

    Mike O'D Gold Level Sponsor

    Tracy,

    I'm using a Pertronix distributor and had/have a situation that sounds similar to your description. Idles good, accelerates well, but surging at cruise. Disconnected the vacuum advance and plugged the hose and it has no surge. Easy to try. I'm still looking at the cause and best solution.

    Mike
     
  20. puff4

    puff4 Gold Level Sponsor

    Mike, I wonder if the surging is from a vacuum leak? Is your vacuum advance diaphragm leak-free?
     

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