Engine miss

Eleven · Jul 2, 2019

Mine runs poorly when idling. I did, however, do what you have done but no soap. I am going to run the compression test again, only this time properly. If I get what I think I will, one cylinder substantially lower than the rest, I am going to guess a burnt valve or at least one going that way. Does have some compression so might not be totally damaged yet. Good time to fix it. I have had one before. The PO said the valve seats were hardened but I am beginning to doubt it. I had to run alcohol gas for a while but now run only Alky free; not sure that matters. Might need to find an additive or something. Anyway, if I do go that route, I am going to get hardened seats if I can. I was borderline lean for a while so that might not have helped. Even though I think the compression will be low, I do not burn oil, at least in any volume you can see. Idling it is clean, deceleration produces no smoke nor acceleration so I have a tough time blaming the rings.

65beam · Jul 2, 2019

Tom H said:
Bob,

I think the Brits did a pretty good job of logical use of colors in wiring. I think many (most? all?) British cars of our Alpine Series era used the same colors. Indeed Brown means direct connection to the battery- no switch, no fuse between that wire and the battery. The green circuit is fused but not controlled by the ignition switch. And the white circuit is controlled by the Ign switch. They used Yellow wire for much of the charging circuit because the charging circuit is not directly connected to the battery, because the Control Box stands between the battery and that circuit. On later Series, they changed that color code to make the charging circuit some variation on Brown, using a blue or yellow tracer on brown wire. That way the brown color tells the mechanic "live to battery" and the color tracer says "sort of, depending on state of something, like the Control Box". Similar tracers on the Green circuit and White circuit add additional notation to those circuits. I wonder if they stopped using Yellow for the charging circuit to "free up" Yellow for the Overdrive. circuit As the cars added electrical items and controls, it becomes a bit challenging to maintain that basic Brown, Green, White circuit convention, but I'm still impressed by the color coding they used.

I'm glad you (and Doug) have used as much original wiring color as possible on your cars. And note that Alpines do use a white wire for supply TO the Overdrive, but then they use Yellow or Yellow w tracers for all the Overdrive circuit past the Overdrive ON/OFF or Gearbox switch.

Tom

Tom,
I'm aware of what colors were used due to owning and working on these things since the 60's. FYI, The only beam I own that still has it's original harness is the red Harrington. It has covered less than 30K miles so since it hasn't undergone a full restoration I've never replaced the wiring. When Doug or Ronnie at the other shop restore the body I'm given back a rolling body with new suspension. That's where I start the assembly. I do use outside resources for work such as upholstery, plating polishing and various other items but I assemble the car after getting the stuff back from them. I did have an old guy moment a few days ago when I said the 16K car was in southern Ohio when it was actually in your part of the state.

Tom H · Jul 3, 2019

Bob,

I did not know that you got that directly involved in the wiring of your restorations. Good to know. But I did know that you knew the wire colors well. I was mainly responding with my explanation / assumption about why the factory used yellow instead of brown wires for the charging circuits on the early Series. I added the other color info mainly for other readers who may not know the conventions. Don't worry about the "old guy" moments. They'll probably happen more often in the future for both of us.

Tom

65beam · Jul 3, 2019

Tom H said:
Bob,

I did not know that you got that directly involved in the wiring of your restorations. Good to know. But I did know that you knew the wire colors well. I was mainly responding with my explanation / assumption about why the factory used yellow instead of brown wires for the charging circuits on the early Series. I added the other color info mainly for other readers who may not know the conventions. Don't worry about the "old guy" moments. They'll probably happen more often in the future for both of us.

Tom

Tom,
Some photos of the dash installation. Not an over night job. First photo is test fit of dash, second on bench and so on to completion. I added a few extra items to the car such as the GT light on the mirror, lights in the foot wells, LED lights on the front license plate, A Wipac Rallyman switch to control the driving lights, etc.

Tom H · Jul 3, 2019

Bob, Very nice. Thanks. But I think it's time we should end this diversion I took from the original topic "engine miss". If I have any further thoughts I'll start a new topic. And let's hope Tracy gets his Alpine running well.
Tom

65beam · Jul 3, 2019

Tom,
I found the 69 to be the more difficult car to install the wiring. The set up is different due to the fuse block having everything wired to the back of it and it has it's own rubber body that snaps into the fire wall. It's a rubber grommet so I had to wire everything up after setting the dash in place. With the alpines I hook most wiring to the dash while out of the car and then feed the wire thru the fire wall. With the RHD I ended up using old warning light bodies for the tach and speedo due to the replacements being plastic and the clips to hold the wires in the speedo and tach didn't stay together when removed the first time.

Mike O'D · Jul 3, 2019

Kevin - thanks for the suggestions. Checking out the vac advance is definitely on the list - as soon as I get a few minutes.

Pertronix makes adjustable vacuum advance modules for the distributors. Any of you guys use one of those?

Thanks.

Mike

buckalpine3 · Jul 3, 2019

65beam said:
Tom,
I found the 69 to be the more difficult car to install the wiring. The set up is different due to the fuse block having everything wired to the back of it and it has it's own rubber body that snaps into the fire wall. It's a rubber grommet so I had to wire everything up after setting the dash in place. With the alpines I hook most wiring to the dash while out of the car and then feed the wire thru the fire wall. With the RHD I ended up using old warning light bodies for the tach and speedo due to the replacements being plastic and the clips to hold the wires in the speedo and tach didn't stay together when removed the first time.

Not to muddy the water any further and sorry Tracy, but that 16,ooo mile red Alpine has been in the Dayton area since I bought it 2008 and Tom you installed 1 of your refreshed tachometers for me at the United in Dayton several years ago.

65beam · Jul 3, 2019

Tom H said:
Bob, Very nice. Thanks. But I think it's time we should end this diversion I took from the original topic "engine miss". If I have any further thoughts I'll start a new topic. And let's hope Tracy gets his Alpine running well.
Tom

buckalpine3 said:
Not to muddy the water any further and sorry Tracy, but that 16,ooo mile red Alpine has been in the Dayton area since I bought it 2008 and Tom you installed 1 of your refreshed tachometers for me at the United in Dayton several years ago.

Doug and I had a discussion yesterday concerning the car and he thought the car was originally in the Cleveland area. Where was it when you bought it? It does drive and handle like a new car. Doug and I were amazed that the stickers both under the hood and the dash along with other things had survived intact for so many years. The paint buffing really makes it look great.

Eleven · Aug 13, 2019

Well, I traced the miss finally and feel I got lucky. I pulled the head off and took it to a machine shop for a look over and repair where needed. They called yesterday and said that Number 1 had corroded so badly (electrolysis) that the valve seat was about falling out. They were able to weld it up and feel that it is solid. The water ports are a little ragged but otherwise not bad. They did not see any other issues with corrosion so whew! Anyway, they also said that ever valve was worn to a razors edge and several showed chipping and cracking (I noticed this also). Am replacing every valve. They thought the seats were fine (the PO said he had replaced the seats with hardened ones just prior to my purchase).
Here is what really chaps: I took the head to a British car machine shop locally a few years ago (mileage wise less that 500ish) and none of these issues were noted. They milled the head because they said it was warped (probably) but nothing else. I will give them a pass on the corrosion but the cracked and worn out valves? Sheesh. Oh well. Am looking forward to getting it back on and seeing if the car will finally perform close to what I should. It has always been a little slower than I thought it should be. (The SII that I raced briefly had a dead stock 1500 in it and was quicker.)
Again, I appreciate the help! Hopefully, I will be able to report another Alpine running and being used like it should. Not a garage queen.