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Which Royal Purple?

AlpineII

AlpineII

Donation Time
Going to try something other than the stock lubricant in the transmission, like to quieten it out a little. I saw several posts recomending Royal Purple so thought I would give it a try. Which one is the one for our transmissions and is the additive or the whole trnasmission fluid swat out recomended?

Or is there a better product recomended?
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
If they offer a a 30W or a 40W engine oil that would work. Just drain and and fill with the recommended amount (till the fluid is level with the filler hole)

Steve
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Ever feel that it's deja vu all over again?

OK class, all together, repeat after me:
"The 'W' in an SAE oil designation doesn't mean weight, it means winter (0 deg. C/32 deg. F)."
"The term 'weight' is not used by lubrication engineers, except perhaps when trying to explain something to a lay person in his terms, rather like an anesthesiologist saying that there are three stages of anesthesia - awake, asleep and dead."
"Oil is classified by viscosity, not weight."
"There is no such thing as '30W' or 'SAE 30W.'"
"There are multigrade (multiviscosity) oils, bearing such designations as 10W30, meaning that the viscosity at 0 C is approximately the same as a straight SAE 10 oil, and at 100 C is approx. the same as a straight SAE 30 oil."

"But teacher, I saw an advertisement with 'SAE30W.'"
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(b...geImage.aspx?SKU=8003220&Image=pix/426668.jpg

"Yes, Johnny, I'm afraid that the "weight" myth/error/absurdity lives on. It's rather like the way people talk about a 220V electric line when it's actually 240V. But if you look at the picture of the oil jug you'll see that it says just 'SAE 30.' Nobody knows why some companies that should know better still put that 'W' in there.":confused:
 
AlpineII

AlpineII

Donation Time
It's great to see that you are so consistent in trying to educate us neophytes on how viscosity is the proper terminology to use.

Anyone have any suggestions on what lubricant, or additive, to put into the Alpine transmission to smooth it out and maybe make it a little quieter?
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Nick,

Yes, but just about every single oil company still puts the W on the bottle. You can't argue with that. In fact, you'd be very hard pressed NOT to find it labeled with the W.

However, when specifying a bottle of oil to look for on a shelf I can comfortably tell anybody regardless of their level of knowledge look for 30W... 40W. etc. Yes, they will find it. Really, they will.

Now, more important and the whole point of this posting.... Related to Eddie's transmission. In case Nick's initial comment confused you. You would want to use Royal Purple's 30W or 40W engine oil (non-detergent preferred but I doubt they have that).

Changing the oil certainly won't hurt but it probably won't help if the transmission already has a bad bearing developing. Regardless... you should check the level of your fluid and make sure it is topped up. Too often the fluid gets low and the result is damage.

Regarding an additive, I can't honestly say I have seen a lubricant/additive for manual transmissions. Maybe somebody on the forum has some alternatives.

Eddie, I have to ask, does the Alpine's transmission change tones when the clutch is depressed? Any chance when the clutch is depressed the noise is loudest? Could you be mistaking a failing throw-out bearing for a transmission noise?



Steve
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
sunbeam74 said:
Nick,

Yes, but just about every single oil company still puts the W on the bottle. You can't argue with that. In fact, you'd be very hard pressed NOT to find it labeled with the W.
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve: I challenge you to find a single bottle/can/jug of motor oil from a reputable manufacturer that reads 30W, 40W or anything elase with a single SAE number followed by a W. Maybe you didn't understand my explanation of the meaning of 10W30 etc.

Sure, you can find any number of adverts for "30W" (etc.) oil, but in every case when you actually look at the container illustrated you see just "SAE 30." Here's another example:

http://www.buymtdonline.com/webapp/...AE 30W OIL: 20oz._10101_19502_168613_45330_-1. If you click on the tag to zoom in on the bottle, there it is. Here's another: http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-57591/Detail. The illustration is fuzzy, but you can just make out "5W30."

If you do find such a container (just "30W" etc., i.e. not a multigrade designation) I will gladly eat my hat. Better still, I'll send $25 to your favorite charity - you name it and I'll post the receipt on the forum.

I just hate to see the continued use of flawed descriptions, when the correct one is readily available, just as much as I do illiteracy. Maybe I'm obsessed. Maybe I'm a nit-picker. Comes with age.
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Nick,

I will up the ante... $25 and you never bring the subject up again.
Yes, a major oil producer.

Steve
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Oh, hell, Nick... I can't do that bet. I am feeling a twinge of remorse - usually I don't make bets. Valvoline identifies their bottles like that.... at least on the bottles I have been buying at NAPA.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
In 1960, Shell sold an oil that was labeled 20w20. I asked the rep about it. He said it was was SAE 20 that had been temperature stabilized, but not as much as 10w30. Do you suppose that Valvoline has left off the second number, but the oil is temperature stabilized?

Bill
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
sunbeam74 said:
Oh, hell, Nick... I can't do that bet. I am feeling a twinge of remorse - usually I don't make bets. Valvoline identifies their bottles like that.... at least on the bottles I have been buying at NAPA.
Click to expand...

You win. You are right and I am wrong - there's at least one label with the dopey, meaningless W. I plan to ask Valvoline what the hell it's supposed to represent. Anyhow, as I lost the bet $25 is on its way to one of my favorite charities, Friends of Animals.
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Nick , It may appear that you are alone on this W issue. But you are not. I understand and agree with you. But I fear that any further attempts to educate or convert the unwashed masses, many of whom I do admire and appreciate, will result in undue discord and unhappiness. But I did want to let you know you were not alone in your belief and understanding and I say this with no disrespect to other opinions.

And for those who are interested to read any technical articles that show that the W means "Winter" and thus is not used as part of the normal viscosity number take a look at these:

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Oil Viscosity

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9014428&contentId=7017076

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Oil Viscosity

In the last link you can see that there IS some use of the W at the end of a viscosity grade number, but it used as an indicator that the viscosity grade is specified for use at Low temperatures. A normal SAE 30 or SAE 40 oil as suggested by Steve for use in AlpineII's tranny would not have a W in it.

I can easily see that common useage might add the W to signify 40 "weight" oil. Yes, the term "Weight" is a lay term for viscosity, and the W really means "Winter". But if one only said "I recommend you put 40 oil in it" it would sound strange. Better to say "I recommend SAE 40 oil" but if people are used to saying "I recommend 40W oil" I guess I can live with it. But if it makes Nick's ears grate like fingernails on a chalkboard I can also understand.

Tom
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
I queried Valvoline about their 30W oil. Here was their response:

Thank you for your question. The "W" just stands for winter. The product you
were looking at is straight 30 all the time summer or winter. It says this to
let customers note that the product will not change in winter like a multiweight oil.

AAAAAGH!! HE SAID Weight!! Now I'm totally confused. I have no idea what they mean. If they meant to show that the viscosity doesn't change from Winter to summer, but stays SAE30, why not label it 30W30?

I've just had a large Martini, and now I don't give a rat's *ss. I promise never to bring up the subject again. Honest. Even if someone says "weight." I mean it. I'm your congressman. Trust me.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Nick, 30w30 is saying 30 winter 30. 30w is saying 30 winter. What would you expect 30 winter to mean? Sounds to me like an oil stabilized for cold weather use.

Bill
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Nick,

If nothing else I think it is great you made a donation to the Friends of Animals! See something good comes from this!

Steve
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Bill Blue said:
Nick, 30w30 is saying 30 winter 30. 30w is saying 30 winter. What would you expect 30 winter to mean? Sounds to me like an oil stabilized for cold weather use.

Bill
Click to expand...

Not at all. All oils increase in viscosity with decrease in temperature; it's plain physics. The only difference is that multigrade oils and synthetics change less than "straight" oils. If the oil featured has an SAE viscosity rating of 30 in Winter (0 deg. C) then - however much VI additive or stabilizer is incorporated - it must be less viscous in Summer (100 deg. C).

And I'm assuming that the guy who wrote to me from Valvoline threw "weight" in because he thought he was talking to some rube who uses the term. Any more of this and I'm reserving the rubber room.
 
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