What Happens if GM Goes Bankrupt?

[Dan Moore]

Hi Nick
You mentioned that back in 1973 your Trans Am was made in Canada
And the free trade agreement Well in the 1940 the Canadian and American Govt,s Signed an Auto Pact with a certain amont of Canadian content in the auto industry so we didn,t just export raw matirials to the USA Long before the Free Trade Agreement So we are in the same boat as you .
And We are anting up to the toon of 3.5 billion or about 20% of total North American auto production . But what I don,t understand is why all the hooplaw about having to bail them out ( sure there was bad manegment ant wages are high and I have been a union member for 38 years ) But No One Talks about the bail out or rebuild of the Japaneese or Germans after the War That funded the motr companies in those nations that were given free access to the North American Market with no tariffs And now the Koreans and India Please go back and put a monitary price back then and calculate with intrest how much it would be over the last 65 years?
FREE TRADE IS ONE WAY NORTH AMERICA IS STILL THE MARKET!!!

Dan

 

[V6 JOSE]

You know, I hate to say this, but it is beginning to sound a lot like political speech again.

Jose

 

[jmthehermit]

Here is something I found on another forum. http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

 

[skywords]

Brilliant
Let GM fail? No more parts for school buses, trucks, construction equipment etc.. Brilliant!
Detroit Allison/GM makers of transmissions and engines for the back bone of the US. QUOTE]

Rick,



Just to clarify..Detroit Diesel is owned by Freightliner and Daimler. Detroit isn't going anywhere.. Allison is still part of GM. GM hasn't been a factor in school bus market for years. Primarily Navastar and FCCC on the chassis side and Bluebird and Thomas on the body side..

Did you hear that Sterling is being discontinued? Just going to be Freightliner and Western Star on the Commercial Truck side. Thomas Bus and FCCC still viable.

I did not know that about the Detriot Diesels but vurtually every school bus has an Allison transmission. And I believe many GM widgets in the bus. I just think that GM must survive.

Nick O
Most uneducated workers do not make the kind of wages that UAW do but look at an average auto mechanic that works at a dealer or good shop, he or she is capable of making six figures or better with hard work if they know how. Aircraft mechanics can pull six figures in the right environment. I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Bill Blue]

That short video makes me wonder what Ford's long term planning is like. At the same time they were spinning off Visteon, they could have been integrating the operations into their assembly plants. The only difference between the Brazil operation (aside from the automation) and Henry's River Rouge operation: Ford does not own everything. What is old is new again.

Speaking of parts sourcing, my Sister in Law's husband got a job in the Kansas City assembly plant a year or so ago. His job was make sure their was always a supply of parts for the assembly line After a month or two on the job, he noticed there appeared to be a tire shortage looming in the near future. He got on the phone, called the supplier, was told the truck was in route. Truck did not show up. Called again, they dispatched another truck, but in the meantime, the next normally scheduled shipment had been dispatched. A few days later, the errant truckload of tires arrived. The driver had taken a detour to visit his girl friend and spent a few days with her. My "brother in law" got fired shortly thereafter. But he was glad to loose that job. The stress was getting to him.

Bill

 

[Nickodell]

Nick O
Most uneducated workers do not make the kind of wages that UAW do but look at an average auto mechanic that works at a dealer or good shop, he or she is capable of making six figures or better with hard work if they know how. Aircraft mechanics can pull six figures in the right environment. I see nothing wrong with it.

Hi, Rick. I didn't call the auto line people uneducated. I'm sure that the great majority have at least a high school diploma; a few probably have degrees that they found were pretty useless in the non-academic world, such as History, English Lit. or Psych. I called them semi-skilled; i.e. capable of using power tools to install components. No doubt some go much further, and have to install, maintain, repair and operate robotic line equipment, and they deserve more.

The mechanics/technicians in the large auto dealers are generally trained under strict Honda, Toyota, Ford etc. protocols. My neighbor's son has recently completed the Jaguar/Land Rover training, which took two years, and includes the most intricate knowledge, both theory and practice, in arcane subjects like computerized engine management. He still has to work for another year at the dealership before becoming a journeyman, and several more years before becoming a team leader. Rather different than bolting stuff on on a production line.

And, as you are well aware, getting, and maintaining, a piston or turbine A & P certificate takes a similar amount of dedication and time, not to mention CE course requirements.

I think both these categories deserve incomes well into the 6-figure range.

 

[Jim E]

Could be wrong on this but seems unlikely that an auto mechanic is going to make $100,000 plus or even 100k. Just do not see hourly guys at a dealer making $50 plus an hour or around $500 a day.

 

[Nickodell]

Jim. Depends somewhat on geography (lower in the South, higher in the Northeast, higher in expensive cities like New York and San Francisco), but they do indeed make six figures after a few years, and team leaders make more still. Service is a high-profit center for the dealership; indeed, today, with car sales way down, in many cases the service dept. makes a much higher net profit than sales. People can delay replacing their cars, but they still have to get them serviced, and the longer and farther they drive them the more need for service.

By the way, $50 an hour for an 8-hour shift comes to $400 a day, not $500, but it still comes to over $100K a year.

 

[MikeH]

Most of the dealer service departments around here are open 8 am - 6 pm (10 hours)

 

[Jim E]

Yeah 8 times 50 is 400 just speaking in round numbers here. Service manager might pull down 100k and most likely is on bonus and or commission. The guys twisting wrenches I don't see it, I know guys who work at the Ford dealer here in service will ask them and see what they say. I also know a couple guys who paint at the Liconln Mercury dealer and they make more than the wrench boys and it ain't a 100k

 

[V6 JOSE]

The last time I went to a Ford dealer, shop rate was $85.00 per hour. You can bet your blue booties that they weren't going to pay the mechanic $50.00 out of that. Maybe $35.00, but you'd be stretching it to make it more.

Jose

 

[Nickodell]

Yeah 8 times 50 is 400 just speaking in round numbers here. Service manager might pull down 100k and most likely is on bonus and or commission. The guys twisting wrenches I don't see it, I know guys who work at the Ford dealer here in service will ask them and see what they say. I also know a couple guys who paint at the Liconln Mercury dealer and they make more than the wrench boys and it ain't a 100k

As I said, a lot depends on where you are located. Just about all wages and salaries are lower in the South, and higher than the national average in some cities.

Having said that, my hourly estimate may be colored by speaking to my neighbor's kid, who works at the main Jaguar/Landrover dealership. When I bought my Jag. in 2001 the hourly service rate was $90, and that was just for labor, and I imagine it is more like $110 now. Remember that dealers also make an obscene markup on parts. I had shocks and front rotors replaced, plus some suspension parts, and the bill was well over $3,000, for about 6 hours in the shop. Assuming some $1,000 markup on the parts, that gives them over $1,500 net for the job, which pays a lot of $50s. And that was 7 years ago; I imagine the bill would be closer to $4,000 today.

However, I may be totally wrong. I'd be interested to hear some actual rates, from both low- and high-cost areas.

 

[puff4]

Rates are amazing. Back when I had a restoration shop - and this is *many* years ago - we charged $32/hour for our work, and we thought that was outrageous, but our cars won shows and our customers gladly paid it!

We did have a reasonably amusing sign on the wall though... it said:

Our standard labor rate is $32.00 per hour.

Additional rates:
$50.00 per hour if you wait.
$75.00 per hour if you offer advice.
$100.00 per hour if you ask us to use your parts.
$200.00 per hour if you help.

 

[Jim E]

My buddy who has a restoration shop charges $80 an hour. When he had a helper he paid him well lets just say the guy could most likley have got food stamps.

Parts mark up... mercy.... that is where the money is!

Tell you the guys who should be making 100k and that is the fellows who work on the big stuff. Know guys who work on cement trucks... big heavy and dangerous know I would not want to do it. Reminds me I also know a parts guy at the local International dealer will ask him about wages next time I see him

 

[MikeH]

Know what you mean Jim. I always feel a bit uncomfortable when working on the brakes on my RV. Even though I'm using jack stands along with the onboard leveling jacks.

 

[Jim E]

Yeah even the parts can hurt you those big Mac heads could pinch a finger off pretty easy

 

[Series6]

Class 8 trucks

Tell you the guys who should be making 100k and that is the fellows who work on the big stuff. Know guys who work on cement trucks... big heavy and dangerous know I would not want to do it.

A few years ago we lost a guy in our body shop one evening. He was an experienced body guy with class 8 trucks but inexplicably took a short cut. Also didn't have a "buddy" check his set up before he went under the truck, which was our policy. He was crushed from the sternum up.

 

[Nickodell]

I've been digging around and got all sorts of answers, from $65 an hour (ASE Certified Master Mechanic) down to the high 20s, so I was probably wrong to suggest that an average mechanic can make $50 an hour - more like $35 as was suggested on the forum. However, that would be flat rate. It seems that you can make a lot more, as one mechanic wrote:

Your ability to properly Diagnose and Repair has a lot to do with how much you can make as a Technician. Most repair shops pay by Flag
Hours that are determined by a Motors or Chilton Auto Repair Times Manual. If it pays 10 hours to replace an engine in a car and you complete the task in 8 hours you still earn the 10 hours, however if it takes you 12 or 14 hours you still only get paid for 10 hours.

 

[Bill Blue]

Here is a pretty good summary of auto dealer mechanic pay.

http://www.automotive-schools.us/automechanic.html

Looks like $100,000 is doable but not common.
Bill