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Weber 32/36 Carb Help
- Thread starter mferris
- Start date
bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
Good work Mike. It is a big relief, isn't it?
I think ypour car came from the factory / the plastic line. If for some reason you need another I think I have one in storage.
I think ypour car came from the factory / the plastic line. If for some reason you need another I think I have one in storage.
Weber help
Mike
Removing the tanks is not too big a deal.Each tank has two bolts located in the fender well and the center pipe has two bolts at the bottom of the center of the valance. When I removing tanks I also remove the 2 bolts on the RH trunk spring arm .This will allow you to ease it down to get the trunk spring out of the way to remove the gas cap.The rest should be self- explanatory...
I had a SIV full of green apples I assume due to kids .It would die in the exact same spot each time it pulled the same hill.I finally pulled the tanks& used gravel and water to shake out the loose stuff and rinse with gas.It got me home from Boulder City Nevada and then later out to Centralia Washington.
Owning Sunbeam's a battle but victory is sweet.
Keep an open mind and tools under yer seat.
Damn- I wrote me a poetry but forgot to take a picture of the apples.
Good luck
Albert
Mike
Removing the tanks is not too big a deal.Each tank has two bolts located in the fender well and the center pipe has two bolts at the bottom of the center of the valance. When I removing tanks I also remove the 2 bolts on the RH trunk spring arm .This will allow you to ease it down to get the trunk spring out of the way to remove the gas cap.The rest should be self- explanatory...
I had a SIV full of green apples I assume due to kids .It would die in the exact same spot each time it pulled the same hill.I finally pulled the tanks& used gravel and water to shake out the loose stuff and rinse with gas.It got me home from Boulder City Nevada and then later out to Centralia Washington.
Owning Sunbeam's a battle but victory is sweet.
Keep an open mind and tools under yer seat.
Damn- I wrote me a poetry but forgot to take a picture of the apples.
Good luck
Albert
Thanks Albert - it's going to be even easier for me to get the tanks out than usual because the previous owner(s) had ripped off the mounting bracket(s) and springs that held the trunk lid in place when open! A 3 foot long dowel makes a wonderful substitue for propping open the trunk.
I already have a hydraulic piston set once I get to rebuilding the car and weld in some mounts again.
I already have a hydraulic piston set once I get to rebuilding the car and weld in some mounts again.
Mikeflbmer
Bronze Level Sponsor
Gas Tanks
I have the same flaking clogging problem going on in my series V alpine...It is due to Ethanol in the gas (thanks Goverment Idiots).....the factory coating slowly peels loose and clogs at the fitting for the small fuel line at the crossover tube and in whatever filter you use....Problem is to recoat them you need most or all of the old coating out of the tank...and if you read the fine print on the resealer coatings, most say "not recomended with alcohol or ethanal."....so what are we supposed to do when the only gas available has ethanol in it? I coated the tanks in my Tiger and they are peeling again...I am now looking into plastic fuel cells, but I hate to deter from an original system....But also if you think about the potentail of a flash fire from a rear impact and how you can reach into the trunk when the top is up (flames would be in the cockpit) stock tank set up is scary....Mike
I have the same flaking clogging problem going on in my series V alpine...It is due to Ethanol in the gas (thanks Goverment Idiots).....the factory coating slowly peels loose and clogs at the fitting for the small fuel line at the crossover tube and in whatever filter you use....Problem is to recoat them you need most or all of the old coating out of the tank...and if you read the fine print on the resealer coatings, most say "not recomended with alcohol or ethanal."....so what are we supposed to do when the only gas available has ethanol in it? I coated the tanks in my Tiger and they are peeling again...I am now looking into plastic fuel cells, but I hate to deter from an original system....But also if you think about the potentail of a flash fire from a rear impact and how you can reach into the trunk when the top is up (flames would be in the cockpit) stock tank set up is scary....Mike
RootesRich
Donation Time
My advice on gas tanks is to call around to some radiator shops and see if they offer coating services. When my tanks finally started to peel about 5 years ago a local rad shop boiled them and coated the inside with a red tinted, aircraft quality epoxy sealer. Cost was about $150 IIRC and the shop said they'd never had the coating fail in 10 years of installations.
tony perrett
Gold Level Sponsor
I have used a tank sealant here in UK which is claimed to resist alcohol and ethanol in petrol. It is available from The Complete Automobilist (info@vintagecarparts.co.uk) as a DIY product. Classic car and bike owners over here have been experiencing many problems from ethanol enhanced (?) fuel including the delamination of fibreglass tanks. Another success for the Environmentalists.
Nickodell
Donation Time
The experts in the forum can confirm (or otherwise) but I maintain that:
a) Real backfiring, through the exhaust system, is usually caused by unburned fuel being ejected into the hot exhaust manifold, usually in the form of droplets from an incorrect float level, bad needle valve/seat or excessive fuel pressure. Backfiring through the carb (usually more of a spitting sound than a true backfire, which is an explosion) is never due to an over-rich mixture but the exact opposite, a mixture so lean that it is on the borderline of being unignitable. This delays combustion until the inlet valve is beginning to open again, and the tail end of the combustion spits back through the induction manifold and carb. If it happens more on acceleration it may be due to a defective accelerator pump (a momentary lean mixture due to inertia causing fuel through the running jets to lag the less dense air being drawn into the engine.)
If the engine runs OK at wide open throttle it points to an air leak;
b) spitting can also be caused by wildly over-advanced ignition timing causing the combustion to occur before the inlet valve has closed;
c) a carbon buildup in the cylinder head can also cause it by acting like the "glow plug" in a model aircraft engine;
d) a burned or incompletely-closing valve can be the culprit too.
Thanks Nick.
I'd agree that in my case it's likely a bad set of valves on cylinder 1 and 4 causing the blowback to the carb causing sputtering.
I spent a good 20 hours of working through problems this week with a goal of getting it on the road before I went back to work on the 3rd. Didn't quite make it, but things are feeling much, much better.
I think I'm down to a bad cylinder 1 (springs don't compress as much as other cylinders - possibly worn cam?), and likely a bad set of valves on cylinder 4 (lowest compression at 105psi, up to 115 with capful of oil, others range from 120 to 150).
I worked on valve clearances today - and all were off by about a 1/4 turn so I'm presuming things are pretty worn in there - after adjusting (and some earlier adjustments to the air/fuel mix):
- engine starts on the first try (even after sitting for 24 hours)
- smoothish idle (best since I've had the car), it never dies now
- while warming up (first 10 minutes), some sputtering out of carb, under load only - but this disappears once temp hits mid-running range on gauge (85c)
- no tailpipe backfires
At this point - aside from doing a valve job and taking the cam out to see if the cylinder 1 is shot - I'm satisfied enough to run the car, get it inspected and continue with the on the V6 conversion.
So to summarize my verbose thread and what I've done so far to get (the engine only) going after the PO let it sit since 1991.
Much of this was not necessary likely - but I don't regret the learning experience, I had only changed oil before this.
- new Redline 32/36 carb (after attempting to rebuild the previous one)
- minor adjustments to idle air/fuel mix
- adjusted idle setting to allow it to return to idle better
- factory jetting
- added manual choke
- new custom throttle linkage and pivot (took out slope from PO hookup)
- added throttle return springs as it was not returning completely to idle
- correct static and running timing via per WSM
- new fuel regulator (set to 1.75psi)
- cleared fuel line/new glass filter
- still seeing specs showing up in filter
- tanks are going to be next
- new cap, points, rotor, wires, and coil (internal resistor), gapped plugs
- Valve adjustments reset to WSM specs
- new belt (after crafting brackets to be able to actually tension the alternator)
And one quick pipe strap repair when the tailpipe came out of the muffler and got dropped on the country road I was testing on.
Now on to seat belts, rebuild the rear brakes (apparently they are not working at all after testing them today, I've completely rebuild the rusted solid fronts), and fix the horn. Get my title back after an inspection and then I can start taking things apart!
This forum has been invaluable.
-Mike
I'd agree that in my case it's likely a bad set of valves on cylinder 1 and 4 causing the blowback to the carb causing sputtering.
I spent a good 20 hours of working through problems this week with a goal of getting it on the road before I went back to work on the 3rd. Didn't quite make it, but things are feeling much, much better.
I think I'm down to a bad cylinder 1 (springs don't compress as much as other cylinders - possibly worn cam?), and likely a bad set of valves on cylinder 4 (lowest compression at 105psi, up to 115 with capful of oil, others range from 120 to 150).
I worked on valve clearances today - and all were off by about a 1/4 turn so I'm presuming things are pretty worn in there - after adjusting (and some earlier adjustments to the air/fuel mix):
- engine starts on the first try (even after sitting for 24 hours)
- smoothish idle (best since I've had the car), it never dies now
- while warming up (first 10 minutes), some sputtering out of carb, under load only - but this disappears once temp hits mid-running range on gauge (85c)
- no tailpipe backfires
At this point - aside from doing a valve job and taking the cam out to see if the cylinder 1 is shot - I'm satisfied enough to run the car, get it inspected and continue with the on the V6 conversion.
So to summarize my verbose thread and what I've done so far to get (the engine only) going after the PO let it sit since 1991.
Much of this was not necessary likely - but I don't regret the learning experience, I had only changed oil before this.
- new Redline 32/36 carb (after attempting to rebuild the previous one)
- minor adjustments to idle air/fuel mix
- adjusted idle setting to allow it to return to idle better
- factory jetting
- added manual choke
- new custom throttle linkage and pivot (took out slope from PO hookup)
- added throttle return springs as it was not returning completely to idle
- correct static and running timing via per WSM
- new fuel regulator (set to 1.75psi)
- cleared fuel line/new glass filter
- still seeing specs showing up in filter
- tanks are going to be next
- new cap, points, rotor, wires, and coil (internal resistor), gapped plugs
- Valve adjustments reset to WSM specs
- new belt (after crafting brackets to be able to actually tension the alternator)
And one quick pipe strap repair when the tailpipe came out of the muffler and got dropped on the country road I was testing on.
Now on to seat belts, rebuild the rear brakes (apparently they are not working at all after testing them today, I've completely rebuild the rusted solid fronts), and fix the horn. Get my title back after an inspection and then I can start taking things apart!
This forum has been invaluable.
-Mike
bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
Way to go, Mike. I am tired just from reading the list of things you have done.
Can you hear that v6 revving?
Can you hear that v6 revving?
Reviving this thread that, since the dang problem came back today.
The new carb is overflowing with fuel, even though I have a regulator inline, could this have failed? It's a holley 12-804, amzn.to/zxXlC6, set to 1.5 lbs
The car has been running (albeit only marginally) for the past 2 months. I finally got the horn and turn signals repaired - ready to get it inspected.
Then took it on the road for one last test, and it went about a mile, started to bog down, then died. Within 5 seconds of trying to crank it (no fire, although I validated that I have spark), fuel starts flowing out of top of the carb.
When cranking it, I can see the fuel in the glass filter just flow out, and I see the fuel pump attempt to fill it up, but it cannot keep up with the fuel flowing out of the top of the carb. Needless to say, there is too much fuel sitting in the intake manifold, and it will no longer start. I took the top off the carb and blew on the fuel input line with it upside down and the floats are clearly sealing, whether they are actually floating, I don't know. But I put about 50 miles on the car without opening the carb (ever) so I doubt they are damaged.
This is a *new* Weber 32/36 DFEV, new regulator, new fuel filter. The cheap in-line fuel pressure meters stopped working - so I have since taken them out, without changing the setting on the regulator (again, 1.5lbs).
I'm going to order another Holley regulator, and get something (again) to test fuel pressure, but this is worse than the first time around with this thread as the old 32/36, nor the new one, ever overflowed like this before.
On the plus side, while on the side of the road waiting for the tow, some bicyclist road by and stopped, enamored with the car, even in all it's broken down glory....
I can't wait for the V6.
The new carb is overflowing with fuel, even though I have a regulator inline, could this have failed? It's a holley 12-804, amzn.to/zxXlC6, set to 1.5 lbs
The car has been running (albeit only marginally) for the past 2 months. I finally got the horn and turn signals repaired - ready to get it inspected.
Then took it on the road for one last test, and it went about a mile, started to bog down, then died. Within 5 seconds of trying to crank it (no fire, although I validated that I have spark), fuel starts flowing out of top of the carb.
When cranking it, I can see the fuel in the glass filter just flow out, and I see the fuel pump attempt to fill it up, but it cannot keep up with the fuel flowing out of the top of the carb. Needless to say, there is too much fuel sitting in the intake manifold, and it will no longer start. I took the top off the carb and blew on the fuel input line with it upside down and the floats are clearly sealing, whether they are actually floating, I don't know. But I put about 50 miles on the car without opening the carb (ever) so I doubt they are damaged.
This is a *new* Weber 32/36 DFEV, new regulator, new fuel filter. The cheap in-line fuel pressure meters stopped working - so I have since taken them out, without changing the setting on the regulator (again, 1.5lbs).
I'm going to order another Holley regulator, and get something (again) to test fuel pressure, but this is worse than the first time around with this thread as the old 32/36, nor the new one, ever overflowed like this before.
On the plus side, while on the side of the road waiting for the tow, some bicyclist road by and stopped, enamored with the car, even in all it's broken down glory....
I can't wait for the V6.
Ken Ellis
Donation Time
Hang in there -- we all know it's disheartening to think you've got it sorted, then the problem re-appears.
I may have missed this in the thread -- if so, my bad.
Do you have a spacer between the block and the fuel pump? There's a little section of the manual dealing with pressure and volume of fuel delivery... section C3. Adjustment of spacer thickness adjusts pressure. Overly stiff pump diaphragm has an effect, too.
Is your filter mesh fine enough to stop everything? Particles small enough to get thru could be A: killing the regulators and gauges, and B: causing the float valve to stick open, bogging, then flooding the engine. When you blow thru it, you dislodge the evidence.
That's pure speculation, of course.
I may have missed this in the thread -- if so, my bad.
Do you have a spacer between the block and the fuel pump? There's a little section of the manual dealing with pressure and volume of fuel delivery... section C3. Adjustment of spacer thickness adjusts pressure. Overly stiff pump diaphragm has an effect, too.
Is your filter mesh fine enough to stop everything? Particles small enough to get thru could be A: killing the regulators and gauges, and B: causing the float valve to stick open, bogging, then flooding the engine. When you blow thru it, you dislodge the evidence.
That's pure speculation, of course.
Thanks Ken. Most everything is speculation at this point.
Although in the bowl of the (new) carb there was very fine sand-like particles (I could see bigger pieces in the Mr. Gasket filter) - other than seeing that the main carb fuel valve does indeed shut off, I don't know what else to check there, I would have presumed that if the fuel cutoff was working, that it would stop at least a reasonable amount of pressure (which I may not have if the regulator is done for).
Regarding the fuel pump, see pictures. I think it was determined that my mechanical pump is of unknown origin. I don't know if this is the correct spacing or not.
I'd much rather not spend another $40 for a facet pump (1.5-4psi, when I want to get a new 4-6psi for the V6), new lines (although I guess i could just use fuel tubing), and figure out how to craft a backing plate for the existing mech pump.
I've ordered another Holley regulator, although I disassembled the existing one and the diaphragm looked fine in the sunlight, and some pressure gauges. We will see.
Existing uploaded pics of fuel pump:
http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3558&d=1324144632
http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3559&d=1324144641
-M
Although in the bowl of the (new) carb there was very fine sand-like particles (I could see bigger pieces in the Mr. Gasket filter) - other than seeing that the main carb fuel valve does indeed shut off, I don't know what else to check there, I would have presumed that if the fuel cutoff was working, that it would stop at least a reasonable amount of pressure (which I may not have if the regulator is done for).
Regarding the fuel pump, see pictures. I think it was determined that my mechanical pump is of unknown origin. I don't know if this is the correct spacing or not.
I'd much rather not spend another $40 for a facet pump (1.5-4psi, when I want to get a new 4-6psi for the V6), new lines (although I guess i could just use fuel tubing), and figure out how to craft a backing plate for the existing mech pump.
I've ordered another Holley regulator, although I disassembled the existing one and the diaphragm looked fine in the sunlight, and some pressure gauges. We will see.
Existing uploaded pics of fuel pump:
http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3558&d=1324144632
http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3559&d=1324144641
-M
I think I have the mystery on my flooding problems figured out. And it is the exact opposite of what I had expected.
My best guess is a restriction of gas from the tank is causing the carb to overflow.
In short - my fuel line gets blocked from flaking fuel tanks (I have a Por-15 kit on order). When the line gets blocked, the pump cavitates, then (possibly) pushes a load of highly pressurized fuel, which blows past the regulator, and overflows the carb before the float can cut it off.
I drained the tanks last weekend, and unscrewing the gas line from the tank, there was only a trickle directly out of the tank. A quick blow with shop air (brass nozzles are your friend), and gas started pouring out.
Regardless - tanks are their way out of the car in a few days.
Followed by a V6 conversion in a few weeks.
My best guess is a restriction of gas from the tank is causing the carb to overflow.
In short - my fuel line gets blocked from flaking fuel tanks (I have a Por-15 kit on order). When the line gets blocked, the pump cavitates, then (possibly) pushes a load of highly pressurized fuel, which blows past the regulator, and overflows the carb before the float can cut it off.
I drained the tanks last weekend, and unscrewing the gas line from the tank, there was only a trickle directly out of the tank. A quick blow with shop air (brass nozzles are your friend), and gas started pouring out.
Regardless - tanks are their way out of the car in a few days.
Followed by a V6 conversion in a few weeks.