Upper A-Arm (Top Link) removal help

[mferris]

I'm replacing upper ball joints. I cannot figure out how to remove the "top link" (which I presume means the upper A-arm?) in the WSM (Page 17 Section F).

My hope was that I could just remove the entire upper A-arm by unbolting the upper ball joint from the stub axle, and then remove the pivot bolts from the coil tower/cross member (see picture), which would take the entire pivot for the upper A-Arm with it. I'm stuck in removing the pivot off the coil tower/cross member since the bolts are not easily reachable - or my rachet(s) won't fit in to reach them.

Here's a few pictures of where I am:

Ball Joint/stub axle bolt: http://bit.ly/1EFVOIV
Pivot bolts to attachment plate(to remove A arm?): http://bit.ly/18ciQfJ

Is this the correct procedure?

Step 3 says to "Detach the top swivel bearing from the stub axle carrier by removing the nut and withdrawing the tapered ball pin using a suitable extractor" - this I cannot seem to do since I cannot move the upper A arm up (do I release tension on the spring to get it to come out of the stub axle carrier?).

Step 5 says to Remove the top link and camber adjustment shims - which I presume is the Pivot bolts pictured above. These are the ones that seem to be stuck - and I want to make sure I'm not removing something I cannot get back in place.

-M

 

[tom o]

Make sure the weight of the car is on the lower ball joint by putting the jack stand as far out on the lower "a" frame as possible. This puts the weight of the car on the spring. At this point the upper "A" frame can be removed without the spring coming out. To release the tapered ball joint shaft from the spindle, put a 2 pound maul on one side of the part of the spindle that the taper goes into. Then take another hammer' as big as you have,(16 oz. or bigger) and hit it opposite the maul, with as much force as you can. The taper will pop right out. I learned this from an old time front end man, and it has always work. The secret is to really let it have it, and make sure it is backed up tightly. 2 or 3 blows should release it.
The rear 2 bolts on the shock tower are threaded into a plate with two nuts welded to it. Even if they twist off, it is easy to make a new one.

 

[volvoguys]

To remove the a-arm: The upper link (control arm) is attached to the crossmember tower via two long bolts that go thru the fulcrum pin, shims, and tower into a captive nut plate behind the tower. If you feel behind the tower you'll feel the two nuts and there should be a few millimeters of thread sticking out. These nuts are welded to a removable plate and cannot be turned themselves - only the hex bolt will turn.

The problem is that Rootes mounted the shims with the slots facing upwards so that years of crud and water pool in the slots allowing rust to enter the holes where the bolts come through. Suggestion: brush the protruding threads thoroughly and soak with generous amounts of penetrating oil. Locate the upward facing slots in the shims and clean it out as best you can and, again, soak with oil. Jack the front end up via the crossmember to allow the suspension to drop as far as possible which should allow access to the bolt heads. As I recall, you'll need a SIX POINT 5/8" socket and if you don't have impact stuff count on breaking your standard socket if they're that tight. As a general rule, the bolt(s) will snap before they twist out. If this happens don't sweat it - I can hook you up with bolts and original nut plates. Just PM me.

Mark ..... volvoguys

 

[Tom H]

Tom's and Mark's advice is spot on. The one clarification I can add is regarding your statement:

"... this I cannot seem to do since I cannot move the upper A arm up (do I release tension on the spring to get it to come out of the stub axle carrier?). ".

Understand that the only reason you cannot move the upper A arm is because that taper pin is stuck in the stub axle. If you were able to pop it out, as described by Tom, but with the spring and lower A frame unsupported, as it seems to be in your photo the spring would push the lower A frame rapidly down in an uncontrolled manner. Not good!

An alternative to putting a jack under the lower A frame is to remove the shock absorber and install a "spring compressor" in its place. A simple spring compressor consists of a 3/8" threaded rod about 20 inches (??) long with nuts and washers at each end

Tom

 

[volvoguys]

Nice additional commentary, Tom!

Based on the pair of pics you've posted, it looks like your suspension isn't gunked up and rusty like most so chances are good the bolts for the upper link should come out without breaking. Caution: I see you've removed the bolt for the upper ball joint so right now there is no fastener keeping the coil spring compressed (tho if you've got the car's weight supported under the lower link (a-arm) you're okay). Might I suggest you put that nut back on just a few turns until you're ready to remove the upper link? 3 seconds could avoid a serious injury.

Mark ..... volvoguys

 

[mferris]

Thanks for the additional safety warnings guys. Out of an "abundance of caution" - I have the lower arm supported with the car's weight *and* a coil spring compressor (thanks O'Reilly loaner program) which is holding the spring from the inside - see pic:

http://bit.ly/1EFVOIV

I did manage to get the bolt off the pivot - but am having a hell of a time getting the upper ball joint to pop out of the stub axle carrier. I might try some heat soon - or i might undo the brake line and just try to remove the bottom ball joint (which I'm going to replace too) and just take the whole wheel assembly off.

Need to get going as the weekend is disappearing.

-M

 

[mferris]

So dang close. Removed the first A arm and started to assemble the press to remove the ball joint. Of course it looks like since these are pressed out from the inside - I cannot get all the necessary adapters into the loaner ball press that I have. Unless someone sees something I'm missing - I guess I'm off to a shop to get this done.

http://bit.ly/15xfhyO

-M

 

[agmason54]

Mik
I have not read the entire thread but I will tell you how I do it..
I have never used anything but a big hammer with the carsweight resting on the crossmember.I slimply hit the spindle where the ball joint isas shown in your pic.The springs pushing against the upper ball joint under pressure will let it pop out.Now you can remove the upper A arm .Now put the jack under the lower A arm to put it all back.I have never bothered with a spring compresser.When the ball joint jumps out of the spindle it may scare you but dont worry it can only go so far.If you aready unbolted the upper A arm you went about it all wrong....
Good luck
Al

 

[mferris]

Thanks Al. I think I've gotten past the hard parts - just not able to get the pressed-in ball joint out of the A arm. Will likely have to get that done somewhere since my loaner press won't fit.

http://bit.ly/15xfhyO

 

[volvoguys]

Mike,

I assume you do not have a ball joint fork? These are relatively inexpensive and should be sourced a Harbor Freight or practically any source for automotive tools. It'll be driven between the ball joint and upper axle carrier. Usually 4-5 determined strikes with a heavy hammer and they'll separate.

The ball joint can be driven out with a hammer once the link is removed. Just be certain you have ample support on the welded joint collar that the ball joint nestles into as its easy to break a weld or distort the collar.

Here's my opinion that'll certainly draw fire: Never, ever, ever use heat on machined surfaces, including ball joints, hubs, etc.

Mark .... v

 

[tom o]

pushing the upper ball joint out of the 'a' arm should not be that hard. You have to remove the retaining clip first.

 

[agmason54]

crows feet pickle forks and clubs

I dont use a ball joint separater because they ruin the boots on tie rod end and ball joints like when replacing front springs.I did mine with a floor jack, couple wrenchs and my favorite club.Its more fun to watch my hammer scare it apart.
Agm

 

[mferris]

Thanks all. I have removed both a-arms and the retaining clips from the ball joints. Now just need to get the ball joints out of the a-arms (do I also need to put new bushings in the pivots?)

Picture:
http://bit.ly/1BgHfI5

Mark and Tom -I've been unable to get the ball joints out of the a-arms, even tapping them strongly, since I could not get them into the ball joint press loaner I had.

Given that mine is an SV and (per the WSM and logic by looking at them), I need to push them out from the bottom to the top of the car (if mounted in the car - which is the same as if I was pushing the retaining clip through the a-arm if it was still there) - then hammering on the spindle (which is a trick since it can move) would have banged them out. But that isn't working.

I'm going to take them to a machine shop and hope that they don't mangle them.

However, I don't (yet) see the 3 spot welds that everyone talk about on the welded joint collar. I'm presuming the collar is on the bottom (if mounted) side of the a-arm - but it looks perfectly solid all the way around it - I don't even see any welds. Maybe once I get them off I will see the welds?

-M

 

[Tom H]

You won't see the welds. But obviously you see the collar, and you know the collar is attached to the stamped steel upper A-frame, and you know it's not glued in! It's held in by about 3 spot welds, that are not readily visible. What people have found over the years is that these welds break - and then you can see where they HAD BEEN!

I had a shop press my upper ball joints out and replacements in. Have the shop add a few tack welds around the perimiter of that collar. Probably best done before the new ball joints are pressed in

Tom

 

[Hillman]

I had no problem pressing the ball joint out of a late series with something like this: http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/ball-joint-u-joint-service-kit/A-p8354714e

Used a small hydraulic press to reinstall. If the ball joint shaft is too long for the 'adapters', shorten it with a gas axe.

 

[mferris]

Thanks Hillman - I'm pretty sure that I had the exact press - but could not get the adapters on either side of the ball joint, and the ball joint, to fit into the press itself. It wasn't the shaft that was causing the problem since I had one cylinder adapter placed over the shaft and resting on the ball itself.

Picture of what I couldn't get to fit in the press:

http://bit.ly/15xfhyO

I had adapters on both sides since I figured I had to press the joint out from the bottom to the top - and could not just push the top of the ball joint through from the top like I had seen on many youtube videos. That would have worked fine with this press.

Or it could have been my mental-spacial challenges rearing their head again.

Regardless - off to a machine shop with a press tomorrow.

-M

 

[mikephillips]

About the only way to actually see the spot welds is to clean back to bare metal, and then about all you'll see are three, perhaps two, discolored areas where the metal was heated. While in fairness I'm guessing they never expected most to last more than a few years before the cars were replaced/scrapped, it seems to me that whatever tool they used was underpowered for the overall thickness of the two pieces. I personally put about half an inch of weld on the ring/arm joint on the bottom of the arm, one on each side of the ring.

 

[mferris]

Thanks - I asked the machine shop to add some weld on the underside.

Of course they called me and told me they tack welded one ball joint onto the A-Arm until they realized what I was talking about.

At least I know that there is one ball joint that won't detach from the A-arm....

-M