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Touring Superleggera Alpines

M

MBRACING

Donation Time
Hallo I am a new member of the Forum from Mian, Italy. I recently found for sale one of the Alpines built here in Milan by Touring Superleggera, and I am interested in buying it, but I cannot find informations on internet relating to how many were built, the chassis numbers, the actual modifications that Touring did apart from the modification of the rear fins, what details I have to look etc. Anybody could kindly suggest me if there is a book that contains this kind of specific informations on the Touring built Alpines, or alternatively where I do have to look? Hope I haven't done a question that was already asked in the past here on the Forum.
Kind regards from Italy and congratulations for your beautiful and passionate Forum.
Mauro
mbracing
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
For starters you might "Search".....

Mauro

Search: Key Word(s): touring venezia alpines

The SAOCA Forum > Sunbeam Alpine Forums > Alpine Cars and Parts For Sale
Reload this Page 1963 Sunbeam ALPINE MK 3 RI-39 TOURING ROADSTER


In the mean time time stay tuned someone of our better and more knowledgeable guys will most likely make a post here that will answer your questions.

Welcome to the FORUM,,


DanR
 
Last edited:
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
I'm thinking he is looking at one of the touring bodies alpines.

I have seen 3 for sale in Europe in the past couple of years.

They are like a hybrid series 3/IV. They are based on a series 3 alpine but have the later style tail lights and reduced fins, but still s3 style fuel filler. They also have turn indicators mounted on the sides of the front guards in a similar fashion to a tr4a.

They have the series 3 interior and dash. Interesting cars when they come up for sale.
 
M

MBRACING

Donation Time
Exactly Michael, the car I'm looking is one of those you mention.
Where I can get more info? No any book or blog/website speaks specifically about them?
Regards.
Mauro
mbracing
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Mauro , where are you located? Have you got an email address?

I have a small amount of information on the cars I can probably send.
 
Greggers

Greggers

SAOCA Vice President
Platinum Level Sponsor
I offered up the Venezia site because I thought perhaps by contacting the site administrators, you could perhaps have a lead on additional information about the coach builder. I've had the pleasure of meeting one of them, Robert, who is a fine gentleman (and member of this club), and I'm sure he would be glad to help.
 
P

pruyter

Donation Time
Hi Mauro,

Touring in Milan built Alpines for Rootes from june 1963 until december 1966.
The CKD Alpines series 4 were produced by Touring from january 1964 until september 1965. The CKD series with a chassisnumber commencing with 945 were Alpines that had no synchromesh on the first gear. The later series 4 got a synchronised gear and the CKD cars of this range had a chassisnumber commencing with 946.
Touring built 55 Alpines series 4 which had a chassisnumber commencing with 945.
From september 1965 until december 1966 Touring built also Alpines series 5.
Under the bonnet there is a plate with the chassisnumber and one of the forum members (Guillermo from Spain) has a Touring Alpine which reads on the chassis plate: RI 39 945030 which indicates that it concerns a series 4, which lacks the synchromesh on the first gear. In reality Guillermo's Alpines is a series 5. His chassisplate reads also RTS 110. I have no clue what this means. The RI 39 could be a colour code, but this is just speculation! Just check also the SAL number because this gives you extra information regarding which type of Alpine you are looking at.

Regards,

Peter
 
M

MBRACING

Donation Time
Hi Peter the Touring Alpine I'm looking it has been registered in 1963 and it has the chassis no. beginning with 9250.... so it must be one of the first Series 3 produced, it will be great to know how many of them were built.
Thanks for the info.
Mauro
mbracing
 
P

pruyter

Donation Time
Hi Mauro,

Indeed, Alpines which have a chassisnumber commencing with 9250 are CKD series 3 cars and 241 of them were produced.

Regards,

Peter
 
M

MBRACING

Donation Time
Thanks a lot but where you got those info if I can ask this?
There is no any book that speaks about them specifically?
Regards,
Mauro
mbracing
 
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P

pruyter

Donation Time
The book, amongst other books, which gives this information is "Alpine The Classic Sunbeam" from Chris McGovern. This book is out of print, but is occasionlly offered on Ebay. The book is first issued in 1980.
 
P

pruyter

Donation Time
Hi Mauro,

while your chassisnumber is 9250254 your car must be kit number 254. Reading again in the book of Chris McGovern I see that I was a little bit hasty by telling you that no more than 241 CKD Alpines series 3 were produced. The exact text is: "total known kits" and there are no final production figures available.
Checking the information that SAOCA has available I see that they know of 7 CKD series 3 cars from which one is a Touring car (chassisnumber 9250134) while the car with the highest CKD chassisnumber is 9250229.
So the car you are looking in to stretches the "total known kits" to at least 254!
The SAL number can be find in the rear area behind the drivers seat where it must be stamped in between de floor itself and the rear seat.
What about the engine number of the car? If it is the original one it will show as B 9250254.

Regards,

Peter
 
paoloRI39

paoloRI39

Donation Time
pruyter said:
Hi Mauro,

Touring in Milan built Alpines for Rootes from june 1963 until december 1966.
The CKD Alpines series 4 were produced by Touring from january 1964 until september 1965. The CKD series with a chassisnumber commencing with 945 were Alpines that had no synchromesh on the first gear. The later series 4 got a synchronised gear and the CKD cars of this range had a chassisnumber commencing with 946.
Touring built 55 Alpines series 4 which had a chassisnumber commencing with 945.
From september 1965 until december 1966 Touring built also Alpines series 5.
Under the bonnet there is a plate with the chassisnumber and one of the forum members (Guillermo from Spain) has a Touring Alpine which reads on the chassis plate: RI 39 945030 which indicates that it concerns a series 4, which lacks the synchromesh on the first gear. In reality Guillermo's Alpines is a series 5. His chassisplate reads also RTS 110. I have no clue what this means. The RI 39 could be a colour code, but this is just speculation! Just check also the SAL number because this gives you extra information regarding which type of Alpine you are looking at.

Regards,

Peter
Click to expand...

Hi Peter,

me it's Paolo from Rome and i own the Sunbeam Alpine Touring Superleggera
(CKD chassis n.9250254). Near chassis number is present a plate of Touring Superleggera with a serial number 144XX, in register of Touring it's indicated about numbers of chassis: 1965 13400-15200
http://www.registrotouringsuperleggera.com/ITA_registro.html
Therefore i can infer the car is a series 3 of 1963, but it left Touring Milan in 1965. In fact the car was registred for the first time in april 1965.
Furthermore Rootes was registred in Italy as Rootes Italia and then i suppose RI stays for Rootes Italia.
Regards.
Paolo
 
P

pruyter

Donation Time
Hi Paolo,

Thanks for your relpy! I agree with you that RI most certainly stands for Rootes Italia. All Sunbeam Alpines have RI 39 while all Sunbeam Venezia's have RI 40. So probably the Hillman Super Minxes will have RI 38. I have no idea why this particular numbers (39 and 40) were chosen.
It is a fact the Touring entered in an agreement with Rootes on the 23th of October 1961 for the assembly of a maximum of four Alpines and ten Hillman Super Minxes a day to supply the Italian market. This agreement was to remain in force until the demise of the Touring company. The Super minxes were built between October 1962 and December 1966. Alpines were built from June 1963 until December 1966. Venezia's were built in the period 1963-1966, but this cars never got the changes, like the full synchromes gearbox and the 1725 cc engine, which the Super Minxes and the Alpines got. The Touring body numbers were not following the timeline of the Rootes numbers and the Touring numbers were also not given in a logical order. So, as you already discovered, the list of bodynumbers as given by the Touring register are from a rather later date then the actual production date.
So we have only one code to decifer left and that is, as an example, RTS 110.
I guess that RTS stand for Rootes Touring Superleggera and that 110 is a colour code because the place were this acronym is placed is exactly the place were the Rootes colour code is placed.
Does your car have the same indications as mentioned in one of the books which is issued by Registro Internazionale Touring Superleggera) namely: the Touring insigna above the name SUNBEAM on the trunk, the Euro style sidelights on the front wings?). This book, number 9, states accordingly to Robert Jaarsma also that all Alpines kept the Series III grill which contradicts with other Touring Alpines (series IV and series V) that have showned up in the meantime.

Best regards,

Peter
 
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