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T5 with a 1725 motor

Discussion in 'Modified Alpine' started by Mag0152, Jan 16, 2022.

  1. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    Barry, never installed a T5 into anything. Seen a couple setting on garage floors, that's about the extent of my experience with them. All of my transmissions have been Ford Rangers. I was going by what DanR has told me. But to compound my mistake, this installation would use an Alpine bell, eliminating the Ford clutch linkage.

    On a similar subject, have you ever installed a T5 in an Alpine that had the engine setting in the stock location? Engine location could make all the difference.

    Bill
     
  2. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor



    Bill,

    My L32 V6 engine and T-5 transmission are in the "stock location" both vertically and laterally. The back face of the engine block is about 1-1/2" ahead of the upper firewall and the front face of the T-5 transmission is about 5" behind the upper firewall. I have no idea how that compares with the front / rear location of a factory Series Alpine engine or transmission. Moving my T-5 transmission forward or backward would not eliminate the interference between the transmission gear case and the left side of the transmission tunnel.
     
  3. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    I personally like the rootes OD trabs...but if one wanted a more robust and available 5 speed.. Thr toyota kits were a good option.. And one of the alloy case sports ratio ones from the non turbo supra was a no body mod option iirc. Some required shifter relocation
     
  4. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    Alpine Bellhousing mods

    Years ago I started some bellhousing mods to put a different trans in an Alpine.

    I dug up the bell to see how it would work with a T5 install.

    Current thinking is to take this bell and attach a Mustang adapter plate.

    The plan is to machine the adapter down in thickness so it has a 5.300 locating ring

    to fit the bell.

    This would yield a bellhousing 7.200 deep, to use with the more common short input T5, of 7.18 ".

    The input shaft would not be as far into the crank as an Alpine input, we'll see what pilot bearing is needed.

    IMG_20220317_140738456_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20220317_144631301_HDR.jpg
     
    DanR likes this.
  5. husky drvr

    husky drvr Platinum Level Sponsor


    Just curious. Are you thinking just a bolt through attachment? Or, maybe a permanent attachment with some hot metal glue (MIG or TIG)?
     
  6. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    Current plans are a bolt together with significant back blocking.

    But if it looks beneficial to have a shorter total bell housing length, I would shorten the bell

    And weld them together.

    I'm not thrilled with welding thin castings and expecting no distortion.

    If I end up welding, I would be inclined to use a blank plate and machine it after welding.

    Then I can make the bell as short as needed.

    But, it's all subject to a process, and testing...

    BTW, I have not measured them, but it looks like the early bellhousing has a little more beef in places.

    DW
     
    DanR likes this.
  7. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    How does the machined flat area compare to the T5 bolt pattern? I'm thinking of making the adapter of say, 3/8" steel, drilled and tapped to accept the T5 bolts and placing it inside the Alpine bell. But of course I know nothing about the bolt patterns.
    Bill
     
  8. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor

    The critical issue is the length of the Series Alpine transmission input shaft which I do not recall being posted. Without that information, everything else is just speculation.
     
  9. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    Here are some PIC's of a T5 sitting on an Alpine Bellhousing. I have them aligned as best as I can.

    The tape measurement end is flush with the Alpine flange that has the four mounting bolts.

    More to come....
     

    Attached Files:

  10. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    The original plan for the modified Alpine bell was to bolt it to a Ford Toploader 4 speed, (and that may still happen).

    But I looked into the possibility of directly bolting the T5 to the Alpine Bell and it's a Challenge!

    The T5 main case is ribbed at the front with few solid places to bolt to.

    The only good news is the T5 input front cover, used to center the trans, is just a little bigger than the Alpine bell centering hole.

    So the T5 cover could be turned down to fit the Alpine bell.

    IMG_20210113_151416980.jpg
     
  11. sunalp

    sunalp Platinum Level Sponsor

    Just completed mounting a Ford Type 9 ( T-9) to the Alpine bell housing. It was not an easy job, lots of
    machining. I don't have it here as my friend is fitting a drain hole so I can change the fluid easily. While a
    bit smaller than the T-5 it presents the same challenges.

    As soon as I get it here, I'll post some pics.
     
  12. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    How about using a different, more compatible transmission? I'm thinking about the 5 speed GM uses. Anyone familiar with them?

    Bill
     
  13. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    r154front.jpg 2147338_orig.jpg Early GM used the T5 also with a wider bolt pattern, later used the Ford pattern. The other GM RWD 5 speed was the Aisan MA5/AR5 used in Solstice and Colorado pickups. It uses the same pattern as the Toyota Supra R154 transmission.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
  14. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    93 and older Ford T5 have 7.18" input length. 94 and newer are 7.85".
     
  15. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    T5 for the FORD pattern seems much better option for adapting to the Alpine bellhousing.

    Then comes the clutch disc diameter and Spline count and diameter
     
  16. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    Measurements for the Alpine tranny body and tailshaft
     
  17. Mag0152

    Mag0152 Donation Time

    After taking all measurements and with the help of Brian Holm, here is what I am planning to use

    Existing data

    Alpine bellhousing

    Length : 7.375 in
    Diameter at union with transmission : 4.865 in.

    T5 transmission (1994-1998 Mustang V6 3.8)
    Diameter at union with bellhousing : 4.900 in.
    Input shaft length from transmission face : 7.85 in.
    Shaft diameter at spigot bearing : 0.671 in.

    Modifications

    Remove 0.200 in on bellhousing (transmission side)
    Machine T5 input shaft plate to 4.900 in
    Machine Alpine spigot bearing to T5 input shaft diameter
    Make 1/2 in adapter plate between bellhousing and Transmission

    Use a SI-SIV flywheel
    Use MGB pressure plate
    Use 1974 Mustang II clutch plate ( 8.5 in, 10 spline)
    Use SV clutch fork and release bearing
     
  18. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor




    Please measure the length of the input shaft on the Series Alpine transmission.
     
  19. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    OK ! Will get'r done tomorrow,
    Didn't know there were any stock Mutt II clutch plates 8.5 " 10 spline
     
  20. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    Dan, probably 4 cylinder clutch disk. one error in Mag0152 ( name?) mods, diameter of T5 input shaft plate, machine down to 4.865.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2022

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