Sugestion for a concours forum catagory

[Limey]

Hi everybody, this may seem a bit of hand grenade but I offer it in a true expression of fraternity

This is a 'feeler' to gauge interest in opening a new forum category of 'concours' for all series I - V as an adjunct to 'stock' . This would be for those who seek info and or want to share discoveries re period correctness be it photos, NOS rather than repro info and their sources, minor details long rubbed off, labels and badges once found on new cars and lost after the first pressure wash. Basically for those of us who want to go the extra yard into resto self flagelation

Don't shoot me down. I have sensed hostility and read gently critical posts in response to topics re 'correctness'. I don't do the my cars better than yours b*llshit just because I have the right carbs.

I am deep into a slow yet educational rebuild to factory accuracy yet proudly drive an unrestored and patched and bodged Series II that exudes history. I love both cars, The problem is when I want to find like minded restorers who may know how the car actually left the factory it's a bit hit and miss and frankly most owners are just trying to keep the old girl on the road and questions about the correct finish on the rear springs or brake drums just cause a universal yawn amongst 99%.

A concours forum topic may prove to be a bit slow like the Harrington page but the the club and it's forum's are about info. Some of it comes quick and some of it comes slow, but it's there for all to refer to.

There are restorers out there like me and you that would do it better if we knew more and there are many of us who have discovered little bits but don't know who else wants to know what we have found out.

Dear admin, there should be a place on this forum for those who want to go deeper into accuracy and share and discuss what we find. There can be no harm and only benefit can arise.

Speak up my resto brethren. The MG, TR & Jag boys did this 20 years ago. Why should our cars lack those finishing touches that they got off their arses to do. I don't want an easy MG or Jag or TR resto with all the bits off the shelf. That's why I chose and love my Alpine and that's why i want to see a concours forum to move us up. Its harder to do and that's where the fun is.

Flak jacket is on and helmet and chin strap done so tight I can't belch.

 

[alpine1963]

OK, your first reply is in support of your idea. I gree with you 100%. I am restoring one now and it makes no sense to have a part in my hands to clean, prep and then paint it the wrong color. Yep, the color will not make it run one bit better, but why not put it back the way it is supposed to be if you have the chance. I vote YES!

 

[RootesRooter]

I'm not quite following you. What exactly would be judged in this 'adjunct' class?

Stock is often defined to put worn original parts on equal footing with repros.

 

[65beam]

concours

you're forgetting the difference between concourse and original .i understand that the guys on the other side of the pond are having this discussion and now you're trying to bring it to the colonies .????

 

[John W]

Congrats for finding the words, Limey. Excellent idea.

 

[phatt]

I agree with them forum section as long as it doesn't degrade into a name calling contest.Paul Hatter

 

[V6 JOSE]

You had better get ready for the arguments. I joined this forum about six years ago and back then, there were some pretty heated arguments about which color was correct for a particular part. I think most of those guys are no longer posting here, but it is human nature to argue over things that sometimes can not be prooved. You won´t find me posting here, but there will be differences of opinion, and strong ones at that.

Jose

 

[Wombat]

Some random thoughts about concourse/originality.
We are dealing with cars that are 40 to 50 years old. Most of them have been through multiple owners, with repairs and "restorations" being carried out before we acquired the cars (there will be exceptions - there are some here that have owned their cars for 30+ years). So there would be very few "original" cars. The other problem I see is how to determine what is "original". There was a thread some time back about whether the rocker cover should be polished or not. The discussion became quite heated, but ultimately did not come to a conclusion.

There are a few cars out there that are largely unmolested - John Bogis' SIV automatic SIV GT is one of them, so cars such as this would provide a benchmark for what things should be.

But I wonder whether well worn (and torn) original seats would score higher than the reproduction upholstery kits. Or in my case whether I should keep the original (slightly bent) and corroded bumpers or buy the repro stainless bumpers.

There is a story (probably apochryphal) in Sydney about the owner of a Porsche who consistently won the concourse. But the total mileage he drove was on and off the trailer.

My viewpoint is that I have a car that I should enjoy driving. Today in Sydney was a beautiful blue sky day, just made for the driving of Sunbeams. But mine is still in the shed in pieces.

I intend to "restore" it to something that looks stock, but also not to make any irreversible changes.

Anyhow please forgive my rambling.

 

[Alpineracer8]

Hey, guys:

In the end, it's just another discussion forum that some folks on the list could benefit from and enjoy. Not everybody is into all the stuff that we have forums for now, such as the "vintage racing" and "Harrington" forums. However, for those folks who participate in them, I'm sure they're glad that they're available.

Yes, I definitely think we should start up a concours forum, if for no other reason than it'll give us just that much more to discuss and learn. What say you, Mr. Administrator??

 

[TulsaAlpine]

I agree with Andy!

I don't have a Tiger or Harrington so I usually do not post or read those threads or forums; occasionally I get on the vintage racing. My old piece of slapped together more after market then original Alpine will not be in any concourse show. For those that are attempting to achieve the perfect restoration I can see that a thread just for that subject would be a benefit. The rest of us just need to know what aftermarket, redone not original part (cheap) that will get us back on the road. Then we have the dark sider’s that have a need for speed and a more modern dependable car or the V6 crowd and they have their own forum.

Donna

 

[SIVAllan]

Such an addition makes sense to me.

I try to use original parts if I can but may not realize which is correct.

Same goes for painted items. Why not paint to factory colors if the colors are known?

Not all of us want a concours car, but I suspect a lot of us like the retro feel of our Sunbeams - and nothing says retro better than factory correct, or at least period correct.

 

[Green67Alpine]

My car is far from it,.....but I like the idea..

Tom j

 

[todd reid]

Suggestion

I am a firm believer that Rootes never built two cars exactly alike, so in a lot of cases there is no correct answer. I will now shut up and go back to the modified forum where I belong. Have fun, this should lead to some great debates!

 

[65beam]

concourse

the statement about rootes not building two cars alike is probably right . then take into consideration what the dealers did to the cars . the dealer in columbus was also the distributor for this part of the country and they were known to swap interiors around to make the car that the customer wanted .i have one car that has been in the family all it's life,so we do have a good idea how it was when it left byers . i also have parted two all original rusty hulks recently and saved all the original furflex,rubber ,etc. plus i have a lot of nos rubber parts,etc. i would be glad to share this info .

 

[Series6]

Limey,

I thought the Stock section would have been the place for that but I have no issue with your proposal as long as it doesn't complicate things for our webmaster or officers. I have no idea how much work it is to maintain a site like this or what cost it takes to run one. Since dues are voluntary here, we have to watch budgets.

 

[Limey]

This is not a general discussion topic its about stock!!!!

Firstly, why has this been moved to the dead world of 'General SAOCA Discussions'?? Surely its in the 'stock forum' where those members who are stock/ potential original finish/concours and whose responses are asked for here are to be found?

Dear Admin I'm not taking a pop as we say in the UK but are you sure that this obviously well responded to (whilst it was in the stock forum...) should be moved off screen.

Many thanks to those that support my idea. Any statistician will tell you that for every yes there's two 'no's' that can't be arsed to reply and 20 others who don't give a hoot either way so I am getting no ego boost here.

My daily is a SII mongrel with all wrong bits. I don't care a tinkers cuss who can tell what bits are right or wrong. I'm keeping the old tart on the game wrinkles and all but my other fun is the other side of the same coin, 'remaking' a SII as close as can be to the day it left its wet and drab UK factory all those years ago, labels and all. Those are my 'credentials' that should negate any thoughts of this being an elitist request. The Lord knows there's no money in the end result; its for the love and pig headed fun of doing it.

The SAOCA is the biggest and best portal to Alpine info in the world; no debate; no question. The stock forum is not so much what it is but what it is not. ie all the other forums. It is the most important and useful forum. I just feel there should be a place where like minded guys can swap info without being boring to others on the main forum that has the main purpose.

After all is that not why we have seperate forums in the first place. Imagine a library where all the books were only arranged on size or most popularly read.

Its just that I know that there are a good number of owners who, as a previous respondent said, if they had a part stripped down might as well paint it back the right colour if they knew what that colour was (to paraphrase).

Then there are those like me who like their curry with more chillis and want the exactly correct bit and will have fun finding out what that is; fun hunting it down, preferably NOS not remanf. and if only finding a used item, fun refurbing it to the correct crappy flat black / crappy e-plate factory finish.

If any arguments between individuals occur it's only 'them's that's the fools'.

Yes, there is a concours debate here in the UK but its about how the cars are judged; by whom and the fact that it took hours last time and some entrants had gone home by the time the results were announced. I'm not posting my request here in any connection with that

We can only 'say what we see' when we answer a fellow members enquiry about an original finish and that can be the only honest and required response to a question posted. I know that there are variations and enigmas and straight un-answerables but I would like to hear the consensus of opinion on a particular question. No one is going to sue.

Example - there is that 5000ml original we all know about yet the bonnet latch is painted red. The provenance seems bullet proof but consensus indicates otherwise. My action will be not to paint my bonnet catch. Simple.

Come on admin and mods, I'm not daring you I'm just asking for an extra forum, a forum about the very roots (pardon the pun) of the car we have elected above all others we could have chosen to spend our time, money and effort on.

I bet it will be more popular than some think.

 

[Alpineracer8]

Ditto what Limey said...I'm all for it!!!

 

[mrtoycrazy]

I'm all for it too,I would like to know how it was originally,the colors,parts and trims.I can't see why an enthusiast wouldn't want to know these things.Each of us has their own decision on what we choose to do with that info and having it in one place for those that choose to use it would be beneficial.