Starter

[Eleven]

I suspect my starter is affecting my ignition. Car is very hard to start cold. So, my questions are; Can a starter draw too much current, if defective, and affect the ignition? I don't have a tool to measure how many amps it is using and have been warned not to use my multi-meter as it will burn it out. My battery is good, tested that.
Car cranks slowly is why I think there is a problem at the starter. How many amps should the starter draw?
Thank you for any help!

 

[Acollin]

I was having the same kind of trouble last winter.
I found that 20/50 motor oil was my particular problem. While I do not know if my issue could have been resolved with a new starter, better grounding or something else, or the slow spinning suggests there is something else wrong with my car, a switch to 10/30 motor oil made all the difference.
20/50, when the temp drops into the 30s, is simply too much for my Sunbeam to comfortably spin.

what viscosity do you run?
Just yesterday, I had a partial quart of Vr 1 20/50 and in this weather it barely flows. It took the warmth from my hand to empty the jug.
Hope this helps
Andrew

 

[Eleven]

20/50 Hmm I'll check it out. It is hard to start at any time but I need an oil change anywy!

 

[Jimjordan2]

Eleven, has the starting problem always been a problem, or is it something new.
I had the same problem, and it was cured by a better ground strap from the engine to the body.
Do you have a ground strap now.
Just a thought. Good luck
Jim

 

[Eleven]

Always been an issue to one degree or another. You know, you'd think I would know if it had a strap but I'll have to check. Thanks

 

[Eleven]

Well don't that beat all. Rule No. 1 on all British cars, check the ground first.
No, I do not see a grounding strap. These usually go from the bell housing to the fire wall. I didn't see an obvious spot on the firewall, anyplace in particular recommended or just where I can find a spot?
Many thanks!

 

[Barry]

Well don't that beat all. Rule No. 1 on all British cars, check the ground first.
No, I do not see a grounding strap. These usually go from the bell housing to the fire wall. I didn't see an obvious spot on the firewall, anyplace in particular recommended or just where I can find a spot?
Many thanks!

You might want to take a look under the car; it is not unusual for a ground strap to be run between the transmission housing and the chassis.

 

[Eleven]

Thanks Barry, I'll do that.
I put a jumper cable (didn't have a good wire to use) between the bell housing and a motor mount bolt test if a grounding issue was a possible problem. Seemed to have a positive result. What I'll do is go under the car to check for one below. If so, I'll disconnect it and clean the contacts. If not, I'll get one attached.
My thanks for all your help fellows!

 

[spmdr]

COLD starting is a Matter of .....DEGREES

(this may not be relevant, but considering the season, I had to say it)....

Back in my IMP driving days, I found the colder it was (very),

the more pushing IN the clutch made it easier to start!

I learned this the hard way, trying to start a VERY cold IMP and Failing, time and again.

BTW, you CAN use a DVM to check a Ground wire/strap, by measuring the voltage from the engine block to the body (while cranking).

BUT, there is also the ground strap/wire from the Battery to the Body...

...AND Other connections and conductors to check.

DW

 

[Hillman]

When I was young (about 1970), I'd get someone to turn the key while I turned the crank (ya know that thing in the trunk that you can use to turn the engine). I got it to start at -20F easily.

 

[Eleven]

No ground strap anywhere so I will get a copper one if I can. Will also need to find a top side place for it (bell housing to motor mount?). Just had back surgery so getting under the car is a non starter.
Again, thanks all!

 

[hartmandm]

My car had a strap from the valve cover to a bolt on the engine bay brace until I moved it to the gearbox mount + gearbox bracket bolt under the car. It worked fine when connected to the valve cover. Plenty of options to choose from I think.



Mike

 

[husky drvr]

I'll post this Tom H post from another thread. It contains some important info on this discussion, as well.

https://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/cranking-amps.29896/#post-216397

I'll repeat what others have said:

The red light next to the ignition key should go OFF when the battery is charging. I do not know of any way that it could be mis-wired to be ON when charging. Your mechanic is wrong! I think the owners manual may confirm this, if you do not believe the people on this forum.

At idle speeds, a Generator doe not put out enough voltage to charge the battery. If you rev the engine up to about 2000 RPM and the light stays on, you have a charging system problem. An alternator can put out some charging current even at idle, but not a generator

You say you have "checked the grounds". Not sure exactly what you have checked but understand that the ground between battery and starter must be a HEAVY cable to handle heavy starting current. At the battery there should be a heavy cable that grounds the battery to the chassis. AND at the transmission rear bracket there should be a short ,heavy, braided strap that connects the transmission box to the chassis. This cable is not described or shown anywhere in the WSM and might have been left off by previous owner or a mechanic.

If you have a voltmeter you can test your starter circuit. Put the black lead of your meter on some very good ground on the engine. not the chassis, put the red lead on the solenoid post that connects to the starter. turn the ignition switch to the start position and see how many volts are showing up on the meter . That's how many volts your starter is getting (unless the cable from solenoid to starter is bad , or the connections are bad).

Your problem may also be corrosion and bad connection between the battery posts and the battery cables. After trying to crank for a minute or so, feel the posts on the battery. If either one is warm, there's you problem. Do this test with no charger or booster cables connected to the battery clamps.

Tom

 

[Eleven]

Great reply and link Tom! If Tom Hayden was to tell me gravity has been reversed I would believe him. Thank you.
Not sure why the red ignition light is referred to here but I have gone through the entire charging system with my multi-meter and it is working to spec (have an alternator). I have cleaned all the battery terminals. The cables going from the battery to the solenoid and then to the starter are as specified and big. Those terminals are are clean (done recently), however, the battery to ground has not been looked at this year as I have been prohibited from going under the car. I'll get someone to do that for me; good thought and thanks.
I'll do the volt test. The test that theoretically would burn out the multi meter was for amps but whether or not it will, I have no idea but have a nice one and don't want to fry it.
Mike: thank you for the photo. That is a perfect "bodge" for me until I am cleared to do heavier work.
Finally, I may have to replace the starter anyway as the Bendix is starting to bang the fly wheel. Fingers crossed I haven't damaged the ring.

 

[TomSunIVGT]

My ‘64 Series IV positive ground has cable running from the battery under back seat directly to the starter ground.
I, too, run 20 - 50 but only in summer. 10 - 30 works fine in Ohio winters. I always change the oil filter as well.

 

[Tom H]

Tracy, thanks for the compliment but maybe you should read my latest response to the thread about the OD warning light! I sometimes have senior moments.

Regarding the ground strap, the factory location was at the rear mounting bracket for the transmission. One end is anchored to the transmission at one of the three bolts holding the bracket to the transmission. The other end is bolted to the frame at one of the bolts that hold the bracket to the frame. If it's not there, you likely are grounding your engine (and starter) through the choke cable !

And just to clarify about the "red ignition light" comment in the post Don referenced, that was in regard to some other issues in the original thread it was part of.

Tom

 

[mxp01]

Eleven,

Following up on what everyone is saying about grounding. Over the summer I installed a rebel wiring harness. One of the suggestions while doing it was changing the way the car is grounded. Originally the ground cable for the battery ran from the negative post (or positive depending on the year the car was manufactured) to the body directly under the car. This is a poor way to ground the car. I also had a ground strap that went to the engine block the the frame/body.

What I did was use the same gauge positive cable and ran it from the ground side of the battery to the engine block and then from the block to the body/ frame.

Now with doing that ground change and new harness my lights are brighter and my cranking while starting is like a modern day car.

I must add thought that I installed a gear reduction starter years ago because I got tired of weak starting and that made a world of difference.

Heavy gauge wire is expensive. I’m lucky and work in construction and my electrical friends gave me 20’ feet of the gauge wire required to do this job so I only needed to buy end connections. If you have friends in the construction/electrical industry they may be able to help you get your hands on some wire.

 

[Eleven]

Why is the woven type of strap necessary? Why not use a battery size wire?

 

[mxp01]

I don’t think the woven straps are necessary. I replaced them with braided heavy gauge wire.

my guess is that they are used because they are easier to work with. Braided heavy gauge wire is tougher to work with. It’s hard to see in my picture, but you can kind of see how I routed my ground.

 

[hartmandm]

My guess is the braided flat cables handle the repeated back and forth flexing & vibrations better.

Mike