Series V suspension parts

[Charles Johns]

Because I am new to Sunbeam rebuilding, are there any later substitution parts that work in our Beam? When building Rods we often found a part that fit our early cars and was much easier to locate. Suspension bushings, wheel bearings, u-joints, etc. from newer cars of any make often work...sometimes better. This summer/winter I will be taking both cars apart and saving what Brits call "good bits" to reuse or save just-in-case. Rebuilding the suspension will be first on my list after fitting the motor and trans., then steering and brakes. Rebuilding brakes looks straight forward with new lines, wheel cylinders, rebuilding calipers, new shoes & pads plus installing the new master I have. Window seals, door seals, hardtop rubber...anything that can substitute and work is what I am looking for. ANY help greatly appreciated.

 

[alpine_64]

All suspension parts are available reproduced from sunbeam suppliers stateside and UK and a few in Europe. Sunbeam specialties, classic sunbeam and Victoria British as a final fall back

 

[65beam]

You can pick up wheel bearings, U joints and items like that at local suppliers. Drive train and suspension parts aren't something you'll find over the counter and don't buy any suspension parts from VB. About a year ago Doug Jennings was rebuilding a spare cross member for me and VB had a good price on A arm bushings so I ordered a set. Turned out they didn't fit and they were some kind of soft rubber that would never stay in if you could even get them to fit. Rubber seals with the exception of the furflex around the door openings are specific to Sunbeams and generic parts like VB sells don't fit. As Michael said, Sunbeam Specialties is your best state side bet for correct parts. They tend to get their orders shipped with the correct parts. The best way for various reasons to rebuild the front suspension is to remove the entire unit from the car. It's held in by four bolts. Check the control arms because they always seem to have distortion or bending.

 

[Charles Johns]

65beam, by "control arms" do you mean Upper/Lower "A" arms? Reading the Brits way of saying things I have learned English is not always American English. Our driveshaft is sometimes a propeller shaft to Brits. YES, I will remove the front suspension to rebuild and make new wedge pieces to increase caster to about 5 degrees positive. I have been checking Sunbeam Specialties for suspension parts and it looks like I will spend between $400.00 and $500.00 for new parts. What year Camaro shocks are subs in our Beams and do they work front and rear? What is the best source for seat foam/covers? It is sad, but I lost a new tan soft-top for the Beam and lots of other stuff during the move...engine stand, full set of gauges, valve spring compressor and too many tools to mention. I had a complete powder coating system but I know where that went. Small parts are great powder coated, and you do NOT need a special oven, just a 450 degree toaster-oven. I powder coated gun parts with one and small car parts. All help appreciated.

 

[pcmenten]

Spindles from later Sunbeam Minx give a 2” drop. Brake calipers from Mustang II fit up with brake hose adapters. 67 Camaro shocks?

I’ve heard that with some work it is possible to put Mustang II spindles onto Sunbeam A arms and convert to front-steer R&P.

I went through the bushings and ball joints on my A arms, and I have Mustang calipers. The Minx spindles are harder to find. Otherwise, I think that the front end just needs careful setup and alignment. I went with original OEM style bushings, not the urethane parts. The OE bushings are neoprene, I think, and are ‘elastometric’ and are designed to be part of the damping in the front end, similar to Mini elastometric suspensions.

 

[260Alpine]

Charles, 67-69 Camaro shocks. KYB Excel-G front 343127, rear 343135.

Monroe front 5804, rear 5818

 

[Barry]

Spindles from later Sunbeam Minx give a 2” drop. Brake calipers from Mustang II fit up with brake hose adapters. 67 Camaro shocks?

I’ve heard that with some work it is possible to put Mustang II spindles onto Sunbeam A arms and convert to front-steer R&P.

I went through the bushings and ball joints on my A arms, and I have Mustang calipers. The Minx spindles are harder to find. Otherwise, I think that the front end just needs careful setup and alignment. I went with original OEM style bushings, not the urethane parts. The OE bushings are neoprene, I think, and are ‘elastometric’ and are designed to be part of the damping in the front end, similar to Mini elastometric suspensions.

Paul,

Sent you a PM.

.

 

[260Alpine]

Paul, I thought you used Mercury Capri calipers?

 

[Charles Johns]

Thanks for the shock numbers. Frontend pieces will be ordered from Classic Sunbeam. With 2 cars to get good parts I will probably build with stock bits first to see how it rides. The coil spring rearend is tempting. The Ford 2.3 is heavier as is the A4LD transmission, but the trans weight is more toward the middle. May put battery in trunk to help offset some weight.

 

[pruyter]

"suppliers statesside and UK and a few in Europe"? Since when is the UK no part of Europe? I know the British consider themselves as something else as Europeans but if they like it or not the UK is geographical a part of Europe and the EU has nothing to do with it.

 

[George Coleman]

Mut II calipers will not work! The Mercury Capri II 76 will bolt up with hose adaptors. Also TR4 calipers will work as well

 

[260Alpine]

Charles, The KYB and Monroe numbers above are stock replacements. The KGB Gas-A-Just are somewhat stiffer "Performance " shocks. Front KG4515 and rear KG5521. On all the fronts you have to press out the bar pin and use a bolt.

 

[Barry]

Brake calipers from Mustang II fit up with brake hose adapters.

Mustang II calipers are not even remotely similar to Alpine calipers (either early or late) and will not fit up with or without hose adapters.

 

[260Alpine]

Yeah, I think Paul forgot what he had. I remember Capri calipers with Datsun Z performance pads.

 

[Charles Johns]

Barry, Bill, 260Alpine, and others, I will definitely rebuild the stock suspension and see how it does on the road. It may seem strange but building an Alpine for long-haul driving is my goal. Seeing these United States from the drivers seat of a car you built is very rewarding. I have cruised the South/Southwest and the Mid-West in several Street Rods. I drove my 65 Mustang 6 cylinder 2,275 miles last month seeing the South, and it is bored to the max, has a mild cam, 2-barrel, hot ignition, exhaust work and lots of suspension mods. Getting 24.5 mpg even with about 30 more HP and several ft. lbs. increase in torque, I was pleased. Now I want 30+ mpg and about 20 more HP out of the Alpine with a nice Radio/CD/USB input, air conditioning and plenty of insulation to keep things quiet. You guys have given me what I need to start my rebuild and it is underway. THANKS again!

 

[DanR]

Yeah, I think Paul forgot what he had. I remember Capri calipers with Datsun Z performance pads.

All of my so called stock calipers have an identifying number...."16P" Anyone know of other specific numbers we can use?

 

[260Alpine]

Dan, Don't know the numbers but, Capri and I've heard TR4. MGB has same 3.25" bolt pattern but I don't know if it would be possible to fit. Some have ovaled the mounting holes on 3.5" pattern Toyota calipers to fit the MGB. Wilwood has a nice twin piston caliper in the 3.25" pattern also. It is popular with Spridgets but has smaller piston size than the MGB. What is the piston size on the Sunbeam?

https://www.gridsport.net/Wilwood-Dynapro-Single-2-Piston-Caliper

 

[65beam]

The Capri calipers will bolt onto the series 3 & 4 suspension but the Alpine pads will not fit. For the brake lines you need a 10mm / 3/8 adapter fitting.

 

[Alpine 1789]

This discussion might be helpful: http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/brake-master-and-calipers.6319/ Note Jim E's comments about the Outlaw M16 calipers, which I believe are a bolt in replacement that he installed on Vader.

 

[Barry]

Dan, Don't know the numbers but, Capri and I've heard TR4. MGB has same 3.25" bolt pattern but I don't know if it would be possible to fit. Some have ovaled the mounting holes on 3.5" pattern Toyota caliper to fit the MGB.

Wilwood has a nice twin piston caliper in the 3.25" pattern also. It is popular with Spridgets but has smaller piston size than the MGB. What is the piston size on the Sunbeam?

https://www.gridsport.net/Wilwood-Dynapro-Single-2-Piston-Caliper

Some series Alpine caliper facts for anyone who cares:

The early series Alpine caliper has 3.50" mounting centers.

The late series Alpine caliper has 3.25" mounting centers.

The late series Alpine caliper has a piston diameter of 2.125" and a piston area of 3.55 sq.-in.; AFAIK, the early series Alpine caliper has the same piston size / area.

Both early and late series Alpines have a rotor with a nominal thickness of about 0.500". Some information indicates that the early series Alpine rotor is a little smaller in diameter than the late series Alpine rotor.

The late series Alpine calipers have an "offset" (mounting surface to center of rotor) of about 1.133"; AFAIK, the early series Alpine calipers have the same offset.​

The Wilwood Dynapro 120-9689 in the link above:

has 3.75" mounting centers which will not work
has a 0.375" rotor thickness which will not work
has a 2.40 sq.-in. piston area which is far too small to work correctly​

The Wilwood calipers with 3.25" or 3.50" mounting centers have small piston areas (2.40 sq.-in. or less) and a thin rotor thickness (0.38" or less).

The #170-4310 4-piston Outlaw M-16 caliper is a bolt on replacement for the Girling P16 caliper used on late series Alpines. The pistons are smaller (1.5" versus 2.125"), but the total piston area is the same (3.55 sq.-in.). The Outlaw M-16 caliper uses 1/8" NPT hydraulic fittings; not sure about the fitting size on the series Alpine calipers, but it is not 1/8" NPT. Pegasus Racing used to sell the Outlaw M-16 calipers, not sure if they still do. IIRC, Jim E used the Outlaw M-16 calipers on Vader.