Roller Rockers for Alpine Engines (not V6)

[Jay Laifman]

I installed the rockers. They feel very solid. Everything went pretty smoothly.

I have only one issue. Some of the rollers do not sit completely across the tip of the valves. Forward/aft, they are right on. But side to side, some are perfectly square over the tip of the valve. But a few of them are off to the side a little.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Would this cause a slight sideways pressure on the valve stem? There is no way to change this without making narrower rockers or narrower shaft stands. Adding spacers would only go the wrong way.

Picture here.

 

[DanR]

Jay. I'd suggest you make contact with the seller....He should have a valid answer,

DanR

 

[Jay Laifman]

Yeah, email already sent. I was just doing a reality check with you guys that this isn't right.

 

[Jay Laifman]

I'm also now realizing that the guy who sells these, who got the company to make them, he has a 1600. Is there a difference between 1600 and 1725 valve rocker dimensions?

Ugh.

 

[Jay Laifman]

I found a thread where Jarrid said there is no difference in rockers between any of the Alpine engines.

So the question still remains if this offset is bad news.

 

[tigretr]

Jay,
From the looks of it the rollers are pushing on more than 50% of the valve which means as long as they are pushing along the axis of the valve there should not be any torque (bending moments) on the valve created by the rocker. This is of course as long as the rocker nose bearing doesn't wear funky due to its less than ideal positioning over the valve. This would concern me more than pushing off center on the valve. I personally don't like it and would not really feel comfortable with it knowing it could be improved. The only option I see is taking material off your rocker stands to move the rockers over. The spring on the rocker shaft would most likely compensate for it and if not you could shim them. Not sure if you have that capability or not. Ideally those nose wheels are right over the valve.

Putting the obvious misalignment seen in the picture aside, where is the contact point on the valve at full lift? It looks like the bearing starts off center (close to the rocker shaft) at rest which means it will get closer to the edge of the valve at full lift due to the arc. Just something to look at.

In reality, the valve is rarely being pushed purely along its axis as the rocker rolls through its arc. It would just be nice to have that bending moment in 1 plane and not in two. Regardless, rollers have much less drag on the tip of the valve than conventional rockers, so as long as they are close to the axis, you will be better off.

Hopefully I haven't muddied the water.

Brian

 

[Jay Laifman]

Interestingly I just looked at the picture of the rockers online that I bought. It is hard to tell. But they look like they might be on correctly. But, the spot where the adjuster attaches is not the same design. So they are not the same rockers.

 

[todd reid]

Roller Rockers for Alpine Engines

Jay,
It looks to me like the rockers could be milled down to bring the roller directly over the valve tip, with a appropriate spacer on the opposite side to keep things in place. Obviously, not something you should have to do yourself after spending good money for new parts, but the solution appears to be straight forward. Hopefully the vendor will stand behind his product.

Good Luck

TR

 

[Jay Laifman]

Yeah, I was thinking that. Then I realized that the push rods are all pretty nicely straight up. So if the tip got lined up, the push rods would be off. Right?

I also was thinking that perhaps the rockers in the picture are the same - but are a bigger ratio. Mine is stock.

 

[todd reid]

Roller Rockers for Alpine Engines

Been a while since I had a Alpine Engine, but I recall the pushrods being pretty long. I am visualizing moving the rockers having a minimal effect on the pushrods. This is not my field of expertise, but a couple degrees of lean on the pushrods should still work?

 

[tigretr]

Jay,
You could easily move the rocker over a bit without affecting too much. The pushrods are somewhat straight but there is an angle to them which means there is a thrust (side load) put on the rocker. Moving the rockers .100" would not add much of an angle to the pushrod and any additional side load would most likely force the rocker into the rocker stands which is better than into the springs.

I had forgotten that the Sunbeam rockers had a bushing on the main shaft. I was thinking there was a roller bearing in there. So yes, you could easily do what Todd mentioned about narrowing the rocker and putting a spacer on the other side. Hardened of course! Or bronze with a steel washer for the spring to push on.

Brian

 

[Peter Macdomald]

Roller Rockers

Creative workshop. address FL 33004 Ph No. 954 920 3303

 

[Jay Laifman]

I just heard from Jason. He said the rockers have fit perfectly for every Alpine ... except they found that the very later heads after Chrysler took over have an issue fitting. Well, I have an even later one: a Holbay head.

I'm guessing that they repositioned the valves a little narrower. Anyone else know otherwise? Was it with the square opening spark plugs? I don't recall anymore when that transitioned. I wonder if those are the heads with the issue. I wonder why stock rockers fit on those heads then?

This is through Creative Workshop. They are all over it trying to resolve. NO COMPLAINTS FROM ME!

 

[Jay Laifman]

It looks like they will shave the rockers. I've also suggested that shaving the stands might be an option to consider.

My valves measure 1.516" center to center.
The rocker rollers measure 1.635" center to center.

I'm assuming that the earlier Alpine heads therefore also measure at 1.635".

So it's .119" that needs to be shaved from the inside of the rockers. (Or .0595" per side of the stands).

Shaving the stands would work. But it would make needing to be doubly sure the washer under the nuts is a small one (and clears the rocker coming up and down).

 

[Jay Laifman]

I have confirmed from SS that the rockers for S1-SV and even H120 are all exactly the same.

I have not confirmed if the earlier heads had wider spaced valves (by .119")

 

[Jay Laifman]

Update: I have to admit perhaps a stupid mistake on my part. When I ordered the new rockers, I also bought new rocker shafts and stands. I just put all the new stuff on.

This morning, I was measuring things and found that the stands are .05" wider than stock. That's half of my displacement! So if I used my stock stands, I'm just .05" off.

There is enough meat in them to get the rest of the .119" off. So I'm going to do that.

The Alpine uses a spacer on the center side, but it does not use a spacer on the side that rests up against the stands. So now seeing that the new stands are wider than what is on the car, and that it doesn't use spacers, I'm figuring the factory intended the stands to be ground down for alignment.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. (on my part for raising this alarm) Feel free to correct me and tell me that I'm still right.

 

[phyrman]

Jay!!!
you aren't stupid!!!!!
Id take the head with the old and new parts to a good machine shop
and
have them fit everything!!!!

Bruce

 

[Bill Blue]

Jay, not stupid - just naive. You assembled parts with no thought they might not be correct. To be stupid, you have to make your own parts that are wrong. I would estimate my I.Q. to be, as they say in politics, under water.

Bill

 

[Jay Laifman]

I'm updating this thread - as I did on the other one about measuring the head.

Someone just confirmed for me that he measured the EXACT 1.516" for all the Alpine heads he had.

So now that means to make these rockers fit, you have to make the stands pretty narrow. I'm surprised the ad says that there are no modifications necessary.

My stands are at a machinist right now to do that. But, that might also cause my pushrods to hit. We'll see.

 

[Jay Laifman]

I have measured the ratio.

I got .306" for my cam lift. I have a Holbay H120 cam. I hope that matches some Holbay cam.

For the stock rockers I got .442" of movement measured on the spring retainer.

For the roller rockers, I got .456" of movement.

.442/.306 = 1.444

.456/.306 = 1.490

I had ordered "stock." So I would have expected closer to 1.4:1. If my measurements are correct, I got closer to 1.5:1. The big question now is if I have clearance for that extra .014".