Replacing CD 150 in '69 Alpine

[Shannon Boal]

Triumph TR-4A used a 1-3/4" Stromberg, may be the best size match....I like the Sniper info.....

The simplicity of installing the Sniper is alluring. So the price. At first glance, it seems pretty pricey, until you consider the package, which includes wide band. About the only extra needed is a proper fuel supply. And the price is not a whole lot more than some carbs. The lure of a faked out CD is strong, but it is more of a Science Fair project. I'm sure that either would beat the pants off of our carb. If we are able to get decent (25mpg) mileage, we'll probably live with what we have.

Bill

 

[Bill Blue]

Triumph TR-4A used a 1-3/4" Stromberg, may be the best size match....I like the Sniper info.....

How about a Carter HY, rebuilt ones are available on Ebay for about the price of two unknown 175 Stroms. This is the carb I was looking at when I learned about the motorcycle carb.

Bill

 

[Shannon Boal]

How about a Carter HY, rebuilt ones are available on Ebay for about the price of two unknown 175 Stroms. This is the carb I was looking at when I learned about the motorcycle carb.

Bill

 

[Shannon Boal]

Carter YH, If I recall, originally Corvette, used on 150 HP Corvair Spyder and 180 HP Corvair Corsa? It does have a power enrichment needle, raises and lowers with throttle position versus manifold vacuum. The linkage slides through a slot in the body, which got loose with wear. I tinkered with those cars a lot, never got the carb just right on the turbo models. Seems like Carter carbs work better than most. I would rather try to make one of those sing, than what you have been working on!

 

[Bill Blue]

The idea of a full range carb is enticing. And an era correct upgtrade would be preferable over the EFI Sniper. A couple of problems though. #1, are there different models? If so, which would be best? There is a Model 80 listed on Ebay. Is that a desirable one? #2, How much hp are they good for? I saw a YH spec'ed at 1 1/4". Would that provide more air flow than the 1 1/2" CD? A positive thing about the S&S, the car now thinks it is somewhat of a badass. Would like to keep that characteristic.

Bill

 

[Shannon Boal]

I don't know which model is best, and cannot remember the size of the throttle bore (it was bigger than 1-1/4", maybe 1-3/8") . But, the carb was used to feed two different model turbocharged 164 CiD motors, located on the inlet to the turbo. One was 150 HP, the other 180 HP, and neither had a wastegate so this carb restricted the available boost (nine pounds stock, tweakable to 12 pounds) a bit. It should flow enough for a 1725. I am pretty sure the bigger motor's carb had a slightly larger venturi than the smaller motor's carb. I found the 150 HP carb had sweeter response, but my 180 HP car never was right. Two things: will it fit, is it too long, and will the air cleaner match up OK? This one has an air horn which slips inside the air cleaner, gripping it's OD.

The idea of a full range carb is enticing. And an era correct upgtrade would be preferable over the EFI Sniper. A couple of problems though. #1, are there different models? If so, which would be best? There is a Model 80 listed on Ebay. Is that a desirable one? #2, How much hp are they good for? I saw a YH spec'ed at 1 1/4". Would that provide more air flow than the 1 1/2" CD? A positive thing about the S&S, the car now thinks it is somewhat of a badass. Would like to keep that characteristic.

Bill

 

[Shannon Boal]

Looks like the marine carb has a 1-3/4" throttle, about perfect size. https://www.carburetor-blog.com/knowledge-base/1959-gray-marine-yh-carburetor/

 

[Bill Blue]

I assume I would have to make adapters for the manifold as well as the filter housing, same as I did for the motorcycle carb. Looks like I can use a carb with a length of up to 6", but shorter would be more comfortable. There is a YH listed on Ebay for Nash-Healey's. They say it has been converted to manual choke and is good for any application calling for manual choke, including Nash's and Grey Marine. Any idea as to flow of this this thing? I'm tempted to think that any dual carb used on a 4.0 would be satisfactory on the 1725.

Bill

 

[Shannon Boal]

Hmmm.... well, 4000 RPM, 1/2 displacement per revolution, 176 cubic feet per minute, so half again that at redline....uh, I have no idea what the carb is flow rated, there was a formula about that in physics class.....more research! That carb was smallish for 180 HP, reputedly was used as a limiter to hold down maximum power or top speed. Folks replaced them with S.U. 2", but those were very hard to find, at any price.

I assume I would have to make adapters for the manifold as well as the filter housing, same as I did for the motorcycle carb. Looks like I can use a carb with a length of up to 6", but shorter would be more comfortable. There is a YH listed on Ebay for Nash-Healey's. They say it has been converted to manual choke and is good for any application calling for manual choke, including Nash's and Grey Marine. Any idea as to flow of this this thing? I'm tempted to think that any dual carb used on a 4.0 would be satisfactory on the 1725.

Bill

 

[Bill Blue]

The Carter fueled N-H was rated @ 140 hp, or 70 hp/carb. So we know that is the minimum they are good for, but have no idea what the maximum might be. That too, might be 70 hp. I'd like to get the 80 hp the iron head engine was rated at. I suppose the best thing would be to hold out for the carb to a late N/A Corvair, which was rated at 90 hp.

Bill
BTW, I treat data on turbo'ed carbs as "interesting if true".

 

[Shannon Boal]

Well, one thing is the 164 CID turbo Corvair was fed with one YH, not two. The naturally aspirated Corvairs were fed with two, or four downdrafts of 1-1/4" throttle bore. (The marine YH is spec'd at 1-3/4"). Are the available YHs expensive?

The Carter fueled N-H was rated @ 140 hp, or 70 hp/carb. So we know that is the minimum they are good for, but have no idea what the maximum might be. That too, might be 70 hp. I'd like to get the 80 hp the iron head engine was rated at. I suppose the best thing would be to hold out for the carb to a late N/A Corvair, which was rated at 90 hp.

Bill
BTW, I treat data on turbo'ed carbs as "interesting if true".

 

[Bill Blue]

Seem to be not too bad. Generally, rebuilts for about $400 or less There is a rebuilt Model 80, listed on Ebay. For N-H's and marine applications, $250. Not a bad price, but A, don't know if I need a different carb and B, if I do need a different carb, this is the one. Being spec'd of the Nash-Healet makes me think it probably is. So mostly, at this time, don't need any $250 paperweights. Getting close to getting the '69 back on the road with an operable speedo, so maybe I will soon know if a different carb would be a good idea,

Good to know about the Corvair applications, I had not seen anything that mentioned the number of Carters on them, just that they were used.

Bill

 

[Bill Blue]

Bill,

Also keep in mind that the '69 bell is ~ two inches deeper than a series Alpine bell, as well as canted.

Don, busy making plans to make fixtures to proceed. Ran across this post at a very opportune time as I have become sensitive to the pressure plate space requirements. The problem in a nutshell: The finished hybrid bell housing will be about 3/4" shallower than a Series bell housing. I was concerned that perhaps the Series pressure plate would interfere, then I noticed your little bomb. I was thinking the '69 pressure plate would be the same as the Series plate. But now I have to
wonder. Any additional info on this obscure subject?

Bill

 

[husky drvr]

Don, busy making plans to make fixtures to proceed. Ran across this post at a very opportune time as I have become sensitive to the pressure plate space requirements. The problem in a nutshell: The finished hybrid bell housing will be about 3/4" shallower than a Series bell housing. I was concerned that perhaps the Series pressure plate would interfere, then I noticed your little bomb. I was thinking the '69 pressure plate would be the same as the Series plate. But now I have to
wonder. Any additional info on this obscure subject?

Bill

Bill,

FWIW since I don't have an Arrow range parts book to check, I'm fairly certain your coupe has the same 7.5 inch disk, pressure plate, and flywheel the later SV used. PP room will probably not be high on the list of challenges. The flywheel is stepped and will only work with the 7.5 PP. The disk, which is easily changed, is of the latest "fine spline" style. By making the inner depth of the bell lower, you'll probably need to address the throw-out bearing arm's pivot stand's height to maintain alignment. The size of the starter pocket for your coupe's bell is much larger than for a series' bell. The coupe's remote shifter housing is the same as a series Alpine.

Hope this helps,

 

[Bill Blue]

Don, on my recent visit, Dan showed me a clutch plate that had 1"-10 spline and I'm thinking it was 8 1/2". Is this an earlier clutch plate or A, was Dan confused or B, my memory is wrong? Maybe both?

The Volvo throwout bearing is a 2" dia and should be compatible with the Alpine pp, so I'm going to use the Volvo clutch release parts. That just means cutting the Volvo bell housing in about equal parts.

Any ideas about using the coupe starter with a Series bell housing? Is all that extra room just empty space, the same as the deeper bell housing?

Bill

 

[husky drvr]

Any ideas about using the coupe starter with a Series bell housing? Is all that extra room just empty space, the same as the deeper bell housing?

Bill,

I just did a very cursory search for the Arrow starter but I'm reasonably sure I no longer have it. IIRC, the Arrow stater has an integral solenoid type engagement like most US starters. If you check your coupe's starter, I believe you'll find a bump on the side which contains the linkages that drive the gear into engagement with the ring gear. The Series starter uses an inertial style engagement.

In answer to your question, I think the space is needed for your starter to fit.

OTH, I think you might could just use a Series starter. Considering all the coupe engines which have ended up in Series cars, the starter mounting is the same. I'm also thinking the two types of starter also engage on different sides of the ring gear.

Hope this helps,

Here's a picture which has nothing to do with your question. I figure only Barry will be interested and know what's pictured.

 

[Bill Blue]

So it appears the worst case scenario: I will need a Series flywheel, starter, and pp. But tell me, did any Series Alpine use a 1" -10 spline clutch plate? I ask 'cause that's what the Volvo needs.

Bill

 

[husky drvr]

But tell me, did any Series Alpine use a 1" -10 spline clutch plate?

Bill,

I think all Audax based cars used a 1 x 10 input shaft until the adoption of the later fine spline type.

If you are on the search for a flywheel, try to find a later 1600 type. The sIV used a diaphragm type PP which is probably a minute bit lower than the earlier spring type PP's. The later diaphragm PP is also a bit lighter. There is a MGB PP which is an equivalent option if you don't find the sIV PP. I don't recall the specifics of the MGB PP but should not be very difficult to find.

The Series disks are 8.0 inch but the sIV PP has enough room for a 8.5 inch disk, IIRC. I know it has been discussed on the forum in the past. You'll probably need to face the surfaces of the PP and flywheel if using the Volvo size disk on used items that were used with a smaller disk.

If using a Series starter, you will have to add an external starter solenoid if your coupe doesn't already have one.

All the Series throw-out bearings for 8.0 PP's use the larger size. I'm also including a screen shot of Sunbeam Specialties catalog clutch parts applications for parts usage comparisons. The sI PP is different than the later PP's.

Hope this answers most of your questions,

Don

 

[Bill Blue]

To answer my input spline question, it appears that nearly ALL Series Alpines used the 1" - 10 input shaft. Which also means my Coupe did not. If that is the worst news of the day, I'll be very happy.

Thank you very much Don. I don't know what this forum (or I) would do without you and your knowledge of these cars.
Bill

 

[husky drvr]

To answer my input spline question, it appears that nearly ALL Series Alpines used the 1" - 10 input shaft. Which also means my Coupe did not. If that is the worst news of the day, I'll be very happy.

Thank you very much Don. I don't know what this forum (or I) would do without you and your knowledge of these cars.
Bill

Bill,

You're welcome.

I don't mind helping when I can. Everyone should.

The catch, my knowledge is limited compared to some of the others on the forum, being mostly mechanical.

HAGD,

Don