I've commented on this issue before but still need some help/advise. I had installed a Standard Brand V100 PCV valve on my Series V. The internal rod in the valve broke away from the spring and got sucked into the intake manifold , then into #1 cylinder, and fractured the piston. I've ordered a new V100 valve and it is the same construction(made in China) and I won't make the same mistake using this valve again. Does anyone know of a different source/design for the PCV valve. Can I eliminate the valve, plug the intake manifold with an insert, and just install a filter/breather for the crankcase/lifter cover?
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PCV Valve Source
- Thread starter alpiner
- Start date
Yes you can! I have done it, because on the so called Webcon conversion, which I have installed, the PCV valve is placed at the wrong place which results in stalling of the engine. So I plugged the manifold with a grub screw.
Besides on the Arrow Range (Hunter type) Rootes did not use a PCV valve at all, so they can be discarded without problems. The only thing is that I am polluting the envirement a little.
Regards,
Peter
Besides on the Arrow Range (Hunter type) Rootes did not use a PCV valve at all, so they can be discarded without problems. The only thing is that I am polluting the envirement a little.
Regards,
Peter
RootesRooter
Donation Time
Thank you for the follow-up on your earlier thread about dropping a part into the engine. I had never heard of a piece of the stock PCV breaking off.
65beam
Donation Time
The original valve could be taken apart, cleaned and reused. I've never heard of an original breaking. Why did you feel you needed to replace the original?
Glenn
Donation Time
Hi Peter, can you post a picture of what you modified? Greatly appreciated.
Hi Glenn,
my car is in winter hibernation right now and because of that I have no sufficient access to take pictures, but I will explain what I have done in order to delete the PCV valve.
There are several options to do this including installing a tappet cover (side cover) as can be found on Arrow type engines, this cover has on this engines no exit regarding removing engine fumes. On this engines the ventilation of the engine is organized by an exit on the valve cover (rocker cover) which is via a flame trap connected to the carburettor. In principle this is not different from the Alpines with one excemption which is that the diameter of the exit on the valve cover is slighter bigger than on the Alpine engines.
It is also possible, after plugging the hole in the inlet manifold, to lead the fumes to a bottle in which the oil in the fumes can be gathered.
What I have done is simply this:
1. close the PCV valve hole on the inlet manifold;
2. install a hose on the outlet of the tappet cover and connect at the end of the hose a small K&N air filter (the kind which is used on motor cycles):
3. do the same as described under 2, but this time it regards the exit of the valve cover. It is not neccessary to keep the flame trap, but it can be retained if you wish.
The hoses need to be long enough to reach for about the underside of the engine, so that engine fumes are not able to reach the innner compartment of the vehicle.
I hope this information is some help to you.
Regards,
Peter
65beam
Donation Time
FYI, This is a photo of my 69GT using the stock setup of the flame trap with the hose being connected to the air filter housing and a side cover with no exit for fumes. The exception is that I used an early Alpine cover instead of the stamped steel valve cover that was original to the car.
Tim R
Silver Level Sponsor
We vent our cars as Peter describes above. We block the PCV hole with a threaded plug, use the club Weber carb and vent the rocker (lifter) cover straight to atmosphere under the car. The carb has forced induction that sucks in cold air from the front of the car, we weld the horn openings shut to keep the heat in the engine bay and away from the carb intake.
Tim R
Tim R
Tim R
Silver Level Sponsor
Here are some photos that I have taken of various Alpine set ups both with and without the PCV. The one thing that you must bear in mind is that if you fit the new club Webcon manifold you need to block the threaded hole for the PCV. When the manifold was developed the hole was tapped in just the inlet pipe for cylinder No 4. As standard the PCV screwed into a common chamber in the Series V manifold this shared gas equally between all cylinders. If you use the PCV on the new manifold it causes significant weakening on No 4 under acceleration. During the life of this engine Rootes had the tappet chest breathing through a down bent pipe out to atmosphere, an upbent pipe to the PCV and then they closed the chest cover completely and the only breathing was at the top of the engine.
Standard set up
PCV fitted but blocked, top of engine venting through K&N
PCV threaded hole in manifold plugged. Top of engine venting through flame trap into carb intake.
Tappet chest venting through flame trap to PCV. Top of engine venting through K&N. Personally I don't ever do this as I have had a car on a rolling road and seen what a mess the PCV makes of the readings when it operates.
Oil catch tank fed from top of engine and tappet chest cover. PCV hole plugged.
Oil catch tank fed from top of engine and tappet chest cover, PCV hole plugged.
PCV Hole plugged, top of engine breathing through K&N, Tappet chest cover breathing to atmosphere.
Standard set up
PCV fitted but blocked, top of engine venting through K&N
PCV threaded hole in manifold plugged. Top of engine venting through flame trap into carb intake.
Tappet chest venting through flame trap to PCV. Top of engine venting through K&N. Personally I don't ever do this as I have had a car on a rolling road and seen what a mess the PCV makes of the readings when it operates.
Oil catch tank fed from top of engine and tappet chest cover. PCV hole plugged.
Oil catch tank fed from top of engine and tappet chest cover, PCV hole plugged.
PCV Hole plugged, top of engine breathing through K&N, Tappet chest cover breathing to atmosphere.
65beam
Donation Time
I have stored away in one of my parts buildings all of the engines used since the introduction of the series 1 thru the fastbacks. The most complicated intake set up has to be the 69 fastback Alpine with the cast iron head. The induction was fitted with a series of valves, vacumn hoses, etc. with a single side draft emission Stromberg carb. It never did run right. With the auto trans it was slower than my Fiat 850. My series 4 has a Weber in place of the Solex and the series 5 also has been changed over to a Weber instead of the Strombergs. I did use the factory intake. The 4 was switched over in the early 80's and the 5 was switched over when Doug restored the body in the early 90's. Our reason for these changes to the two cars was reliability because at that time we traveled all over the states in these two cars. At that time both averaged mileage in the high 20's and since gas is $2.40 / gal today mileage isn't a concern. All of our other Beams retain their original carb set ups. I've seen a lot mentioned about the Webcon but have never seen one here in the states. I noticed that there are different filters added to the valve cover, headers wrapped, fuel lines rerouted, pressure regulators, etc. Are these changes required to use this and what else in the engine has to be changed to make it work as intended?
If you watch the picture regarding the webcon conversion which is shown on www.alpineinnivations.co.uk you see al the parts that are involved in this conversion. Wrapping the exhaust manifold is not one of them. The fact that the Weber 32/36 DGV 5A is higher than the Solex carburettor asks for a solution in order to prevent contact between the bonnet and the air filter. The solution is the use of a so called plenum at which is a hose connected and at the end of the hose the K&N air filter is installed. By leading this hose plus air filter to the front of the car there is provided that cool air enters the carburettor and cool cair is able to contain more fuel than warm air which is in this case an advantage. The picture of Tim's Alpine shows a more sportier option of the K&N air filter than the filter which is standard in the kit. I for instance have the standard air filter on my Sunbeam Rapier series IV and so have the Alpine of my brother and the Alpine of a friend who I have convinced to go for the Webcon conversion. I have done a lot of work on my brothers Alpine but he everytime says to me that the Webcon conversion was the best thing we have done for the car.
The mileage is much better and so is the driveability. I recommend this kit with no hesitation at all.
Regards,
Peter
The mileage is much better and so is the driveability. I recommend this kit with no hesitation at all.
Regards,
Peter
Tim R
Silver Level Sponsor
I agree with Peter the Webcon conversion from Alpine Innovations is a major improvement. Apart from LED light bulbs for the dashboard instruments it is my favourite update on an Alpine. I have had numerous Alpines for over 35 years and the Webcon carb and manifold is easily the nicest and easiest carb set up. If the car has electronic ignition as well, it is quite literally 'fit and forget'.
You don't need an electric fuel pump and regulators however modern (UK E5 and European E10) fuel is much more prone to causing heat and vaporisation problems (as well as causing swollen seals, sinking floats etc) so routing the fuel feed around the back of the engine bay and wrapping the exhaust to lower under bonnet temperature is a smart move. Two of our Alpines has this set up but the one I am restoring currently won't have. I will use the original fuel pump, wrap the fuel pipe in insulation and the exhaust pipes in exhaust wrap.
You don't need an electric fuel pump and regulators however modern (UK E5 and European E10) fuel is much more prone to causing heat and vaporisation problems (as well as causing swollen seals, sinking floats etc) so routing the fuel feed around the back of the engine bay and wrapping the exhaust to lower under bonnet temperature is a smart move. Two of our Alpines has this set up but the one I am restoring currently won't have. I will use the original fuel pump, wrap the fuel pipe in insulation and the exhaust pipes in exhaust wrap.
65beam
Donation Time
If you look at the previous photos of my green car and the wife's blue car you'll see that there are no problems with the K&N air filter contacting the hood. They both have 32/36 Weber DGV carbs. I have a couple other identical set ups on the shelf that were on other cars that we had in the past and there were no air filter problems. Is the carb you're using different than what we've used for years or did your design of the intake make everything set higher? What kind of mileage do you get with this conversion? Is it better than 30MPG?
Tim R
Silver Level Sponsor
I have had Weber DCD and DGV carbs on various Alpines and none of these have hit the bonnet (hood) except for once when I didn't screw the top dome nuts down and dented one when I dropped it to close it! As far as I am aware you can fit a slim Weber air filter to the new club Webcon carb. On my own cars I have the K&N Apollo filter and induction set up. This is very slim above the carb and draws ambient temperature intake air from the front of the car ahead of the radiator.
I don't think that the new manifold makes the carb sit any higher that the 'log' manifold. The big difference is that compared to the original 'log' style intake manifold you get better atomisation and a smoother flow of fuel and air mixture. There is no problem with fuel puddling in the intake pipes for cylinders 1 and 4 (so no need for the drain tube) and all four cylinders have exactly the same mixture all the time. When you take the plugs out now they all look identical which was not always the case with the log manifold.
I typically get around 30mpg on the manual and 28mpg on the Automatic. The real difference is in smoothness throughout the range. The tick over is rock steady and low (around 600rpm). Previous carb set ups were usually at least 800rpm and definitely not as steady.
(By the way, I have no connection with the people who developed and sell the Webcon carb but I am a big fan of it.)
Best Wishes,
Tim R
I don't think that the new manifold makes the carb sit any higher that the 'log' manifold. The big difference is that compared to the original 'log' style intake manifold you get better atomisation and a smoother flow of fuel and air mixture. There is no problem with fuel puddling in the intake pipes for cylinders 1 and 4 (so no need for the drain tube) and all four cylinders have exactly the same mixture all the time. When you take the plugs out now they all look identical which was not always the case with the log manifold.
I typically get around 30mpg on the manual and 28mpg on the Automatic. The real difference is in smoothness throughout the range. The tick over is rock steady and low (around 600rpm). Previous carb set ups were usually at least 800rpm and definitely not as steady.
(By the way, I have no connection with the people who developed and sell the Webcon carb but I am a big fan of it.)
Best Wishes,
Tim R
65beam
Donation Time
I've never heard anyone say anything bad about the Webcon unit. I like these K&N filters that I use. You might have noticed that my Harringtons have filters intended to catch stones only. As far as the drain tubes go, let's just say that I found out at an early age back in the early 70's that the drain tube needed to be much longer. I have three other Webers in the cabinet and they are set up the same as the ones on our cars. They all came from Doug @ Tiger Auto. I don't know what he did to them but the two Alpines don't have the hesitation that I have heard others mention and have always performed quite well. . I haven't made any long trips in any of the cars for quite awhile due to the wife's leg problems but we always averaged close to 30 MPG. Gas here in this part of the world today is $2.40 per gallon so I really
don't worry about mileage figures and whenever any of our Beams travel this rig only averages about 10 MPG at it's best.