Overdrive Tranny Install

[Alpine James]

Hi All,

After some looking, I have what I think may be a suitable transmission to put in my SV. I believe it is a later synchro OD model. I am assuming this as the reverse is down to the right.

First thing is. Is it possible to install without esentially pulling the engine. When we removed to previous non OD tranny, it was a pretty tight fit getting it out. Fortunately the car is over a pit.

Second, I checked the solenoid and it appears to be functional. But I gather there is another piece required, the relay. Can anyone tell what this looks like and where it should be located. One of my SII's has OD. but I havn't been able to tell what/where the relay is for sure. It is possible that I have one in one of the many boxes of parts I have aquired.

Thats it for now.

Thanks, James

 

[RootesRacer]

The early OD relay is a simple normal relay, the OD switch opens and closes which turns on the relay (dependant on the 3/4 gear switch and OD switch position).

The late OD relay is magic as it interfaces a twin momentary contact switch which turns on or cancels a special latching relay.
Some of us have determined that you can create the equivilent circuit on the special relay by using two normal relays together.

So in short it depends on the year of the car.

hope this helps.

 

[Tom H]

And, yes, it's possible to install an OD tranny without pulling the engine.But as you already saw, it's a bit tight, and an OD tranny is even tighter because it is a few inches longer. But I installed mine without pulling the engine.

Tom

 

[Alpine 1789]

The OD relay (either one) looks just like the generic Lucas relay. Just go to eBay and search on "Lucas Relay". You will see dozens that look right, although most will not be for the OD. The stock locating position is on the passenger (for LHD cars) bulkhead, near the coil.

 

[Mark B]

I think the later OD relays end with the number 199. I will try to look it up later. They look just like the silver standard relays but they have more than the standard number of prongs. Give me a bit and I will get specifics.

Thanks

Mark B

 

[Mark B]

I just found a bit more info. The relays are Lucas 6RA relays but there are many variants. The OD one used in the later Alpines is 33199 and I believe you can use the ones that are the same numbers followed By (e) or (j), as in 33199e. Do a search on this forum because when I had to hunt this down there were a lot of very good work arounds and possible alternatives suggested.

Thanks,

Mark B

 

[Mark B]

In reviewing some of the communications when I was looking for this relay, someone suggested the company below might have a relay available. This was nearly a year ago though.

Mark B


PA Blanchard & Co
P.A. Blanchard & Company, Clay Lane, Shiptonthorpe, York, YO43 3PU
Telephone: 01430 872765 | Fax: 01430 872777

 

[Alpine James]

Hi all,

Thanks for the info. I have to believe that someone makes a relay that would work. It's not rocket science. I will be persuing the relay issue later this winter when I rewire the car. Right now the wiring is a total clusterfk.

As far as getting the tranny into the car, it took 2 of us less than 10 minutes. Fortunately one of us was a guru mechanic. It took me longer to get the starter back in.

Thanks, James

 

[Tom H]

James, Relays are not rocket science, but the OD relay for the SV is a strange one. It includes a resistor of some unspecified value that allows the OFF position of the OD switch to short out the coil. I doubt you will find an equivalent. I think it makes more sense to use 2 more common relays wired up as described in several posts on here. The 2 relay combo is a more reliable solution as well.


Tom

 

[Alpine James]

Thanks,

I will follow the proven path.

James

 

[RootesRich]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not just buy the SI-II relay that SS sells and use the jumper wire tip Rick includes if requested to convert it to a S3-V relay?

 

[Alpine James]

Sounds like a good plan to me.
James

 

[puff4]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not just buy the SI-II relay that SS sells and use the jumper wire tip Rick includes if requested to convert it to a S3-V relay?

Can we get this fix posted here?

 

[Tom H]

I just had Rick at SS fax me the "Tech Tip" regarding using a standard SI-SII relay. The tip makes no sense as a way to use the SI-SII relay. It is really a tip on how to use a SRB521 or SRB400 relay, both of which apparently DO have the TWO contact neededs, but require the addition of a 7-9 Ohm resistor to make it like a SV OD relay. I am 99% sure the standard SI-SII relay that SS sells as P/N ME50 is NOT an SRB521 or SRB400.

I think it would be easier and more reliable to use the two relay method described in post #7 here:

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7821

Note it uses 2 different types of relays, but both are common and easily found at any auto parts store.

You should also read this thread:

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14773

Tom

 

[RootesRich]

About 10 years ago when I installed my OD unit, I didn't have a S3-SV relay. I did have what I believe was a SI/II relay. My Dad pulled the relay apart and studied it for a few minutes and after reassembly jumped two of the terminals together. It's worked ever since.

I'll take a closer look at it this weekend, try and get some part numbers off it, see what terminals he jumped, and post the info.

 

[Tom H]

Rich, I'll bet what you have is a S3-5 relay. The normal wiring for that "special" S3-5 relay includes a jumper from W2 to C4 terminals. Your dad figured out that the jumper needed to be there. I cannot imagine a jumper on a common 6RA relay would solve the issue.

Tom

 

[RootesRich]

Rich, I'll bet what you have is a S3-5 relay. The normal wiring for that "special" S3-5 relay includes a jumper from W2 to C4 terminals. Your dad figured out that the jumper needed to be there. I cannot imagine a jumper on a common 6RA relay would solve the issue.

Tom

Tom, if what you say is true, then Rootes used a different relay on the Pre-production SV as I know for certain there isn't a jumper wire on that relay (unless it's jumped inside).

 

[Tom H]

Rich, I'm confused. maybe we have a terminology problem. The "jumper" is simply a wire from one terminal to another. You say your dad put one on the relay. I think he simply put in place the "jumper" from W2 to C4. This then matched the factory wiring which includes a short white wire (a jumper") from W2 to C4. The jumper is not actually a part of the relay, but part of the wiring. See the dwg 4B on page E1 . 5 here:

http://www.rootes1725cc.info/wsm145/WSM_E/E.htm

Tom

 

[RootesRich]

I had a few minutes tonight before I ran out of daylight and I definitely do not have a S3-SV relay. I have a spare and pulled it out for comparison.

I'll have to take a closer look later in the week and see if I can read a number on the case, but it appears to have only 4 terminals and is jumped between C2 and W2. What ever I have and what ever terminals my Dad jumped works just fine.

 

[RootesRich]

Just had a few minutes while my son was napping to look at the way my Dad wired the OD relay back in 2001. Although the relay doesn't have any markings on the case, it appears to be the SI/II type with four single terminals.

To the best of my knowledge and attempting to read wire colors and terminal markings upside down and with an illuminated mirror, following is the wiring:

Terminal W1 - Blk wire to ground, Y/B wire to column switch
Terminal W2 - Grn wire to OD dash light, Y/G wire to column switch
Terminal C1 - 1 yellow wire to column switch, 1 yellow wire to OD
Terminal C2 - Y/P wire to OD

Wht jumper wire from Terminal C2 to Terminal W2

As I said in a previous post, the way my Dad wired the relay has worked flawlessly since we installed it and engages/ disengages just like the later Series OD cars were designed to.