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Overdrive Gear Box

beamdream

Gold Level Sponsor
Hi Tom,
I have no history on the trans & OD, I guess it is a bit of a gamble. What are your thoughts? I guess there may be a way to hook it up to an electric motor and VFD to test it, is that possible? I am unaware of anyone near me who provided rebuild or service testing.
Andrew

Well it just happens that I am going to bench test an OD trans tomorrow prior to installing if all goes well.

With a little help from others, I am experimenting with an electric motor, which will couple to the trans input shaft with pulleys and v belt (will put up pics if you want of our test rig). Our aim is to have the trans secured and spinning on the bench, filled with oil of course, select 4th gear, then apply 12v with jumper leads to the OD solenoid wire, in theory this should engage the overdrive, we have a speedo connected to the extension housing so should be able to see a speed change as (if) it operates.
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
Well it just happens that I am going to bench test an OD trans tomorrow prior to installing if all goes well.
(will put up pics if you want of our test rig.

Yes, for sure. I would love to see some pics of your setup.
Thanks
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
For your SII there is no difference between the two relays, the extra connection is unneeded, but not a problem. The switch and relay for SI and SII are the same, but quite different for the SIII -SV.

Hi Tom,
Is there any problem incorporating a warning light with the SI OD setup?
I see the S3-SV had quite a different setup (wiring) and it used a warning light on the dash.
Thanks,
Andrew
 

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
I don’t believe SV had an OD lamp. Mine has factory supplied OD and there is no OD warning lamp on the dash.
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
I don’t believe SV had an OD lamp. Mine has factory supplied OD and there is no OD warning lamp on the dash.
This is a S3 and I am looking to install a complete SI Tran with Overdrive. Looking at my relay and the wiring diagram, I don’t see a warning light noted. The S3 & SIV I believe are wired dirrerently and show a warning light. I wonder if it is possible to include a warning light in the SI Tran/OD install?
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Piece of cake to add an OD "warning" light to either an SI, SII setup or an SIII-SV set up. I'd suggest using an Ignition lamp, and holder, better yet get a faded one that looks yellow rather than red. Drill a hole in the dash at the upper left of the tach, about 10 O'Clock, not too high and positioned about even between the tach and the Ammeter (or ammeter hole). If you have a spare dash around you can see the actual location as a molding circle in that area on the rear of the dash. .

Then connect one end of the lamp holder to ground and the other end to the right point in the circuit. You really have a choice as to where to connect it depending on what you want the "warning" to tell you. Do you want to know the switch is on , or that the power is now connected to the solenoid. If everything is working fine, you really don't need a light to tell you the OD is engaged. You'll see it on the tach and feel the shift. But the light is handy as follows:

1) For an SII circuit, you could wire it to the switched side of the column switch, that is, the terminal on the switch that only has power when the switch is ON. This way the light will "warn " you that the OD switch is on. Of course if the switch is ON but the tranny is not in 3 or 4 gear the lockout switch on the tranny will not let the OD come on. The nice thing about this is that if your OD got disengaged because you down shifted out of 3/4 , the lit up warning light will remind you that the switch is still ON and as soon as you shift back into 3 or 4 , the OD will re-engage.

2) Or you could wire the light to terminal C2 of the relay, the terminal that provides power to the solenoid when the relay is ON, and the the contacts close. This would "warn" you that power is going to the solenoid, and if you did not feel the OD engage, you would know that the solenoid was probably bad. Or if the light did not come on when you turned on the switch, either the relay or the switch was bad and that was why you did not feel the OD kick in when you flipped the switch.

Tom
 

beamdream

Gold Level Sponsor
Yes, for sure. I would love to see some pics of your setup.
Thanks

Andrew, here are the pics of our successful test rig trials on my OD setup.

Using a washing machine motor, a couple of pulleys and V belt which we mounted to a hinged base board, the hinged mount gave us the ability to vary tension on the v belt, our reasoning here was that if the trans locked the belt would slip thus averting potential gear damage. With a 12v battery and jump leads we could activate/deactivate the OD solenoid as required.

Things we learnt:
1. get the direction of drive correct, our initial setup (pic 2) had the trans running backwards.
2. get a bigger motor, our washer motor was only turning at 1440 rpm and really struggled to maintain speed in 4th overdrive
3. in hindsight we could have used a better pulley(s) ratio, I would like to have had the input speed up around 3000 rpm

Nevertheless we have now satisfied ourselves that the unit is good to install.
 

Attachments

  • OD test rig 2.jpg
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Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
Piece of cake to add an OD "warning" light to either an SI, SII setup or an SIII-SV set up. I'd suggest using an Ignition lamp, and holder, better yet get a faded one that looks yellow rather than red. Drill a hole in the dash at the upper left of the tach, about 10 O'Clock, not too high and positioned about even between the tach and the Ammeter (or ammeter hole). If you have a spare dash around you can see the actual location as a molding circle in that area on the rear of the dash. .

Then connect one end of the lamp holder to ground and the other end to the right point in the circuit. You really have a choice as to where to connect it depending on what you want the "warning" to tell you. Do you want to know the switch is on , or that the power is now connected to the solenoid. If everything is working fine, you really don't need a light to tell you the OD is engaged. You'll see it on the tach and feel the shift. But the light is handy as follows:

1) For an SII circuit, you could wire it to the switched side of the column switch, that is, the terminal on the switch that only has power when the switch is ON. This way the light will "warn " you that the OD switch is on. Of course if the switch is ON but the tranny is not in 3 or 4 gear the lockout switch on the tranny will not let the OD come on. The nice thing about this is that if your OD got disengaged because you down shifted out of 3/4 , the lit up warning light will remind you that the switch is still ON and as soon as you shift back into 3 or 4 , the OD will re-engage.

2) Or you could wire the light to terminal C2 of the relay, the terminal that provides power to the solenoid when the relay is ON, and the the contacts close. This would "warn" you that power is going to the solenoid, and if you did not feel the OD engage, you would know that the solenoid was probably bad. Or if the light did not come on when you turned on the switch, either the relay or the switch was bad and that was why you did not feel the OD kick in when you flipped the switch.

Tom

Great stuff, I have an original warning light for a S3. This will be great, thanks Tom!
 

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
If everything is working fine, you really don't need a light to tell you the OD is engaged. You'll see it on the tach and feel the shift. But the light is handy...
"Handy" is a good word,. My wooden dash came from a Tiger (not sure which Mk) and had a hole in the OD light spot, so I added a light for my SV. While I agree that it isn't needed, it is a very nice addition, if only as a visual reminder to go with the seat of the pants feel.
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
B510EE3D-358F-46F4-949F-C5F00949DD50.jpeg I think I have found a problem with the SI trans. The rear spline looks worn on one side. Can our guys tell me what you think. Should or can it be replaced?
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Why do you say this?

If the shaft is unacceptably worn, you are fully hosed.
The output shaft is the one magic and almost unobtainable part on the rootes overdrive since it is a rootes specific laycock part. The output shaft is a part of the annulus, which is the planetary assembly.
All other D type apps I have ever seen uses a hubbed output, rootes went splined...
 

beamdream

Gold Level Sponsor
View attachment 15853 I think I have found a problem with the SI trans. The rear spline looks worn on one side. Can our guys tell me what you think. Should or can it be replaced?

Not sure what you mean "worn one side"

What I think I`m looking at is the rear extension housing where the tail shaft fits, this is an area that seldom wears significantly, if I`m correct with identify of shaft, can you find a tailshaft to slide on and check the extent of spline wear ?
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Andrew as a side note the S3 had a unique pnale light switch with 3 resistors that would dim the OD warning light when the headlights were operated.
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
Well I guess this hoser is “Hosed” as stated above!
This is the trans
9464AFD6-46A2-4B90-AD9E-79E26F84D5FD.jpeg
and this is how I have been hosed.
D91BC254-4D0F-4E75-B4BF-8AB637F9735A.jpeg
Would this happen due to miss alignment or unbalanced prop shaft?

I guess an overdrive is not in the cards after all of this.

Thanks guys.
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Andrew,

Hard to tell from the pictures. Pull the transmission tailshaft seal so you can get a better look at the end of the tailshaft.
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
Andrew,

Hard to tell from the pictures. Pull the transmission tailshaft seal so you can get a better look at the end of the tailshaft.
Hi Barry,
I will do that this afternoon. Thank you for the continued support. Pictures to follow.
Andrew
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
You are going to have to tell us what you see that we dont.
I see a rusty output shaft but just dont see the wear you are talking about.
Remove the tail housing, this is easier to remove than the seal and will let you clean things up so you can test
a drive shaft to see if it is in fact warn.
There should be some oil on the shaft and the shaft should not be twisted.
Twisted OD output shafts are relatively common.

Well I guess this hoser is “Hosed” as stated above!
This is the trans
View attachment 15854
and this is how I have been hosed.
View attachment 15855
Would this happen due to miss alignment or unbalanced prop shaft?

I guess an overdrive is not in the cards after all of this.

Thanks guys.
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
You are going to have to tell us what you see that we dont.
I see a rusty output shaft but just dont see the wear you are talking about.
Remove the tail housing, this is easier to remove than the seal and will let you clean things up so you can test
a drive shaft to see if it is in fact warn.
There should be some oil on the shaft and the shaft should not be twisted.
Twisted OD output shafts are relatively common.

The tail stock looks to have about 6 7/16 nuts holding it on. Is it just a matter of removing the nuts and loosening off the balancing pipe?
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
How gentle? She seems to be really fixed on there. Tap up trying to lift housing?
image.jpg

Is it ok to try and open it at the seam (at the location of the balancing pipe) or should I drop down to the lower part of the housing in line with the Solinoid?
 
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