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oil weight
- Thread starter bbonner
- Start date
George Coleman
Gold Level Sponsor
Hi Bev! I use castrol 20W-50 in my Alpine V thats for the engine, the trans . uses 30W motor oil. Have used this combo for 40 + years no problems.
Hi Bev! I use castrol 20W-50 in my Alpine V thats for the engine, the trans . uses 30W motor oil. Have used this combo for 40 + years no problems.
You know my husband has been telling me this since I owned the car 2007 and I just didn't listen....thanks I am older and wiser and better at listening I guess. Thanks Bev
Nickodell
Donation Time
uses 30W motor oil. Have used this combo for 40 + years no problems.
What is "30W"? Do you mean SAE30?
Nick, I thought you might enjoy these articles on oil "weight"
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6008198_explain-motor-oil-weights.html
http://www.ehow.com/about_6702264_difference-between-motor-oil-weights.html
And here's one that you may applaud!
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Oil_Labelling_Explained
Best regards,
Tom
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6008198_explain-motor-oil-weights.html
http://www.ehow.com/about_6702264_difference-between-motor-oil-weights.html
And here's one that you may applaud!
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Oil_Labelling_Explained
Best regards,
Tom
65beam
Donation Time
weight
the word " weight " is a universally used word in the lube industry from the parts store to the maintenance super in an industrial plant. whether it's right or wrong, this term has always been used and will continue to be used. I have called on and sold to over a thousand accounts in three plus decades as a lube rep. we work with viscosity a lot in industrial applications due to high temps and pressure. even though people know the word viscosity, very few know what it means. viscosity is the measurement of a fluids resistance to flow. an sae 30 oil for instance may have a kinematic viscosity of 11.0 @ 100c while an sae 40 is around 13.8 in most brands. could you imagine the chaos if a parts store guy used terms such as kinematic viscosity @ 40c or 100c, cold crank viscosity, c/poise or viscosity index? talk about confusion! that's why almost everybody says " give me a case of 30 weight oil ". viscosity for oils also varies from blender to blender. but they all have to fall within a certain range to meet current specs. using the word" weight" makes life so much easier.
the word " weight " is a universally used word in the lube industry from the parts store to the maintenance super in an industrial plant. whether it's right or wrong, this term has always been used and will continue to be used. I have called on and sold to over a thousand accounts in three plus decades as a lube rep. we work with viscosity a lot in industrial applications due to high temps and pressure. even though people know the word viscosity, very few know what it means. viscosity is the measurement of a fluids resistance to flow. an sae 30 oil for instance may have a kinematic viscosity of 11.0 @ 100c while an sae 40 is around 13.8 in most brands. could you imagine the chaos if a parts store guy used terms such as kinematic viscosity @ 40c or 100c, cold crank viscosity, c/poise or viscosity index? talk about confusion! that's why almost everybody says " give me a case of 30 weight oil ". viscosity for oils also varies from blender to blender. but they all have to fall within a certain range to meet current specs. using the word" weight" makes life so much easier.
Yes I have tried the 20 50 weight and I have good oil pressure for the first time in a long time. I am not using a lot of oil either like I was before. Of course we fixed the oil pan gasket but still I finally have good oil pressure after cleaning the pressure release valve and changing to this 20 50 weight oil. I am happy with it's performance. Thanks everyone for your help like usual.
Nickodell
Donation Time
I'm well aware, of course, that the use - or misuse - of "weight" in lubricants is almost universal in the US (but nowhere else in the world IIRC.)
The fact that it is so common doesn't make it any more OK than, for example, another almost universally-cited "220 volt line." To my knowledge, there is no domestic or industrial current supplied at 220 volts in North America. The domestic incoming is 240v, split in the load center in the house into two 120v buses. However, the term "220 volt" lives on for some reason.
I had a well-recommended electrician (A rated on Angie's List) put in a line for a relocated clothes dryer. He explained to me that since the floor was solid concrete, he would run a conduit outside with the 220 volt line. When I asked him where he would get the 220v from, he said "you know what I mean," or words to that effect. I'm glad the Apollo project was not run in the same way. "Houston; we have a problem. We seem to be missing the moon because of your vectors." "Hello Eagle. You know what we meant."
I really don't care if people refer to oil by weight, or for that matter by a really olde worlde description that my granddad used. He would rub some lube between his fingers and describe its "oiliness." I do try to joke about it, and most people understand that and don't get bent out of shape. I just feel, however, that it would help people understand lubricants if they didn't confuse the "W" in a multigrade oil with Weight, instead of Winter. For example, what in hades is "20 50W"?
The fact that it is so common doesn't make it any more OK than, for example, another almost universally-cited "220 volt line." To my knowledge, there is no domestic or industrial current supplied at 220 volts in North America. The domestic incoming is 240v, split in the load center in the house into two 120v buses. However, the term "220 volt" lives on for some reason.
I had a well-recommended electrician (A rated on Angie's List) put in a line for a relocated clothes dryer. He explained to me that since the floor was solid concrete, he would run a conduit outside with the 220 volt line. When I asked him where he would get the 220v from, he said "you know what I mean," or words to that effect. I'm glad the Apollo project was not run in the same way. "Houston; we have a problem. We seem to be missing the moon because of your vectors." "Hello Eagle. You know what we meant."
I really don't care if people refer to oil by weight, or for that matter by a really olde worlde description that my granddad used. He would rub some lube between his fingers and describe its "oiliness." I do try to joke about it, and most people understand that and don't get bent out of shape. I just feel, however, that it would help people understand lubricants if they didn't confuse the "W" in a multigrade oil with Weight, instead of Winter. For example, what in hades is "20 50W"?
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Nickodell
Donation Time
Hi, Tom. I liked that.
On a related subject; it always amazes me that highly-stressed aero engines of WWII ran on straight mineral oil, decades before multigrades appeared. When you consider that the R-R Merlin began life putting out around 850hp, and six years later was yielding over 2,240hp, with 2,350 for short emergency needs (from only 27 liters), and used a straight 30-weig... Ooh! I almost did it! I mean straight SAE30 oil.
In Europe in winter, aero engines couldn't be persuaded to turn over when the temperature dropped into the teens or low 20s. Some bases had huge generators that blew hot air through flexible trunking attached to the engine, but that was cumbersome. One solution was to dilute the oil with gasoline, dropping its effective viscosity to around SAE15. After the engine ran there was a special vent to purge the evaporated gasoline well away from the exhaust stacks. Crude, but generally effective. I've also seen pictures of Russian planes with fires burning beneath the engine cowlings. Even cruder.
By the way, I wrote an article for Aviation History magazine a couple of years ago on the development of the Merlin and its crucial place in the outcome of WWII. Without the Merlin, Britain would have been invaded. Without the same engine in the P-51D, the USAAF daylight bombing would have had to be stopped due to losses up to 30% on a raid. I can pdf it to anyone interested.
On a related subject; it always amazes me that highly-stressed aero engines of WWII ran on straight mineral oil, decades before multigrades appeared. When you consider that the R-R Merlin began life putting out around 850hp, and six years later was yielding over 2,240hp, with 2,350 for short emergency needs (from only 27 liters), and used a straight 30-weig... Ooh! I almost did it! I mean straight SAE30 oil.
In Europe in winter, aero engines couldn't be persuaded to turn over when the temperature dropped into the teens or low 20s. Some bases had huge generators that blew hot air through flexible trunking attached to the engine, but that was cumbersome. One solution was to dilute the oil with gasoline, dropping its effective viscosity to around SAE15. After the engine ran there was a special vent to purge the evaporated gasoline well away from the exhaust stacks. Crude, but generally effective. I've also seen pictures of Russian planes with fires burning beneath the engine cowlings. Even cruder.
By the way, I wrote an article for Aviation History magazine a couple of years ago on the development of the Merlin and its crucial place in the outcome of WWII. Without the Merlin, Britain would have been invaded. Without the same engine in the P-51D, the USAAF daylight bombing would have had to be stopped due to losses up to 30% on a raid. I can pdf it to anyone interested.
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65beam
Donation Time
weight
nick,
all lubricants blended with base stocks refined from crude oil are mineral oils. there are some lubes out there for specific uses that are blended using animal or vegetable oils. mutigrade oils are suitable for use over a wider temperature range than a single grade oil since they contain a viscosity index improver that is usually a high molecular weight polymer that reduces the tendency of an oil to change viscosity with temperature.
nick,
all lubricants blended with base stocks refined from crude oil are mineral oils. there are some lubes out there for specific uses that are blended using animal or vegetable oils. mutigrade oils are suitable for use over a wider temperature range than a single grade oil since they contain a viscosity index improver that is usually a high molecular weight polymer that reduces the tendency of an oil to change viscosity with temperature.
Nickodell
Donation Time
I'm not sure what the message is you're trying to convey. While certainly not having your depth of knowledge on the subject, I'm familiar with the general makeup of lubricants, including base stocks, viscosity modifiers, waxes etc. The point I was trying to make about the Merlin was how incredible it was to extract that huge specific power and reliable endurance in wartime conditions from a non-multigrade oil without many of the ingredients and additives in what we put in our lawnmower engines today.
By the way, the name is Nick, not nick. A nick is a small cut. I like to think I'm a cut above. JOKE!!!
Chazbeam
Silver Level Sponsor
Synthetic vrs Organic
Ok i liked the discussion on OIL "weight" don't we measure our atoms that way?
HA
Anyway..
Im rebuilding my 1592 and originally ran straight 30 "SAE" in it (caught myself)
I was thinking of staying that course. I live in South CAl and never have that kinda cold weather like back east that would freeze your eyelids closed.
I was searching around and found on a mustang forum people saying not to use synthetic on the rebuild as you wont get a real cylinder brake in (too slick)
the thread was on the use of assembly lubes do's don'ts etc..
What do you guys think on that?...Lots of differing opinion on this subject..
some say the Moly's leave gunk, other say its a waist of time...
and if the engine will sit before running use this if it will run right away use this.blah blah blah.
Just want to do the right thing so any advice will be well appreciated.
Chaz
Ok i liked the discussion on OIL "weight" don't we measure our atoms that way?
HA
Anyway..
Im rebuilding my 1592 and originally ran straight 30 "SAE" in it (caught myself)
I was thinking of staying that course. I live in South CAl and never have that kinda cold weather like back east that would freeze your eyelids closed.
I was searching around and found on a mustang forum people saying not to use synthetic on the rebuild as you wont get a real cylinder brake in (too slick)
the thread was on the use of assembly lubes do's don'ts etc..
What do you guys think on that?...Lots of differing opinion on this subject..
some say the Moly's leave gunk, other say its a waist of time...
and if the engine will sit before running use this if it will run right away use this.blah blah blah.
Just want to do the right thing so any advice will be well appreciated.
Chaz
Synthetic vs Organic.
I can only give my experience on this oil debate. In 1964 I gave my Series 1 Castrol 30 weight oil as per the owner's manual and changed the oil and filter regularly. But, I spun a crank bearing and rebuilt it. it ran fine until I disposed of it to acquire my first Firebird. Fast forward to 1990. Vintage air cooled motorcycle (1970 to 1980) engines called for multi-viscosity dino oil and lots of my associates used the stuff for years without complaint. Some have done 400k plus miles without breakdown. I followed suit until I read an article somewhere about synthetic and thermal breakdown resistance and that source touted Mobil 1 as the best on all fronts. So I put Mobil 1 in my bikes and never looked back. It doesn't burn, lose viscosity or break down between changes, seems to move through the motor quicker, makes the engine start easier and run cooler. But it will find its way out past seals and gaskets and p*ss out like a Russian race horse on steroids . When I bought my Series V, I took out all the fluids and put in Mobil 1. The 1725 engine leaves its marks on my garage floor but it won't burn/use oil, goes 5000 miles between changes and gets better gas mileage. The motor is no better 50 years later, but the oil is. I use synthetic in my transmissions and final drives and when I change it, it comes out the same color as when it went in.
As far as break-in is concerned. Break-in is just rapid wear where the parts mate because they wear against each other. In the old days, after rebuild, we used to use rebuild oil. But, in the synthetic era, there is no such thing as break in. No modern engine maker calls for a different lubricant on break in. A well honed cylinder and fresh rings seem to do just fine on synthetic.
My opinion - Use Mobil 1. It costs a little more but it's the best you can get for the money.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I can only give my experience on this oil debate. In 1964 I gave my Series 1 Castrol 30 weight oil as per the owner's manual and changed the oil and filter regularly. But, I spun a crank bearing and rebuilt it. it ran fine until I disposed of it to acquire my first Firebird. Fast forward to 1990. Vintage air cooled motorcycle (1970 to 1980) engines called for multi-viscosity dino oil and lots of my associates used the stuff for years without complaint. Some have done 400k plus miles without breakdown. I followed suit until I read an article somewhere about synthetic and thermal breakdown resistance and that source touted Mobil 1 as the best on all fronts. So I put Mobil 1 in my bikes and never looked back. It doesn't burn, lose viscosity or break down between changes, seems to move through the motor quicker, makes the engine start easier and run cooler. But it will find its way out past seals and gaskets and p*ss out like a Russian race horse on steroids . When I bought my Series V, I took out all the fluids and put in Mobil 1. The 1725 engine leaves its marks on my garage floor but it won't burn/use oil, goes 5000 miles between changes and gets better gas mileage. The motor is no better 50 years later, but the oil is. I use synthetic in my transmissions and final drives and when I change it, it comes out the same color as when it went in.
As far as break-in is concerned. Break-in is just rapid wear where the parts mate because they wear against each other. In the old days, after rebuild, we used to use rebuild oil. But, in the synthetic era, there is no such thing as break in. No modern engine maker calls for a different lubricant on break in. A well honed cylinder and fresh rings seem to do just fine on synthetic.
My opinion - Use Mobil 1. It costs a little more but it's the best you can get for the money.
Just my 2 cents worth.
FWIW been using breakin oil as recommended for the past 40 years as a light aircraft engine rebuilder, those of you in the business will know.
If we dont go thru this strict regime, at about 200 hours there will invaribly be issues with fouled plugs as oil makes its way past the rings on account of cylinder wall glazing, and there lies the problem with modern oils, they are so slick and slippery that the ring bedding in process doesnt get to happen in those first few critical hours of running.
Now new cars etc. dont go through this process because the engine materials and build tolerances are so good that the practice is made redundant; but when we have old engines and old materials refurbished you can save a lot of later grief with a proper run in procedure.
If we dont go thru this strict regime, at about 200 hours there will invaribly be issues with fouled plugs as oil makes its way past the rings on account of cylinder wall glazing, and there lies the problem with modern oils, they are so slick and slippery that the ring bedding in process doesnt get to happen in those first few critical hours of running.
Now new cars etc. dont go through this process because the engine materials and build tolerances are so good that the practice is made redundant; but when we have old engines and old materials refurbished you can save a lot of later grief with a proper run in procedure.
bohemianway
Donation Time
Walmart pricing
10 years ago we ran extensive DF (1000 hour Deterioration Factor) testing for emissions for air cooled 12-25 hp engines and ran a matrix of oils to evaluate their performance. I am still supprised that the winner buy a statistically significant margin was Valvoline HPO SAE30 oil from Walmart. From viscousity breakdown, PH, ..... So from there on out all DF testing and emissions validation testing is done with HPO. Not that I am recommending this but just putting out there one more pice of information for the decission tree. The correlation is that Alpine engies run fairily hot so an oil that handles this higher temperature in Air cooled engines..... By the way, for my Corvair spyder (turbocharged) for autocrossing I (and others) ran Shell fire and Ice 20W50 that was commonly used in piston aircraft. JMTCW. In my SV I use ARCO 20W40 simply because I got a 55 gallon drum on an auction for $4 and cannot come up with a reason not to.
Charles
10 years ago we ran extensive DF (1000 hour Deterioration Factor) testing for emissions for air cooled 12-25 hp engines and ran a matrix of oils to evaluate their performance. I am still supprised that the winner buy a statistically significant margin was Valvoline HPO SAE30 oil from Walmart. From viscousity breakdown, PH, ..... So from there on out all DF testing and emissions validation testing is done with HPO. Not that I am recommending this but just putting out there one more pice of information for the decission tree. The correlation is that Alpine engies run fairily hot so an oil that handles this higher temperature in Air cooled engines..... By the way, for my Corvair spyder (turbocharged) for autocrossing I (and others) ran Shell fire and Ice 20W50 that was commonly used in piston aircraft. JMTCW. In my SV I use ARCO 20W40 simply because I got a 55 gallon drum on an auction for $4 and cannot come up with a reason not to.
Charles