I just attempted to start the series 5 I have been working on. The car started but showed no oil pressure. Car ran ok for a short time with no nasty noises. I shut it off and started to investigate. Gauge is hooked up. Removed the fline and fitting at the block. Cranked the engine and got no oil out of the port. The po that I bought the car from installed the engine. He pulled it from another car and was purportedly rebuilt, never run and sat for several years. He did give me a receipt from an engine rebuild company that showed the work done on an engine 10 years ago. The engine does look clean and fresh. I don't have any reason to disbelieve the rebuild, however, due to other things I have found on the car, I really don't trust any of the work he has done. So, the question is now how should I proceed to verify adequate oil pressure and circulation? Any suggestions appreciated.
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Enjoy.
no oil pressure
- Thread starter hotrod
- Start date
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Remove the oil pressure relief valve and inspect the dump port, you will probably see the piston is stuck partly open.
Soak it in solvent, whack it a few times then reinstall.
Be sure the piston is closed before reinstalling.
VERY common problem.
Soak it in solvent, whack it a few times then reinstall.
Be sure the piston is closed before reinstalling.
VERY common problem.
jumpinjan
Bronze Level Sponsor
Pull the spark plugs too to help cranking. After you inspected & reinstalled the oil filter base as he pointed out, start cranking to try to see any oil pressure. What oil do you have in it now? I use Castrol HD30.
If there's no problem on the piston pressure valve, I suspect it had never been cranked over to prelube the engine. Running a brand new, rebuilt engine for the first time without oil pressure, is really bad, I hope its okay?
Jan
If there's no problem on the piston pressure valve, I suspect it had never been cranked over to prelube the engine. Running a brand new, rebuilt engine for the first time without oil pressure, is really bad, I hope its okay?
Jan
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Good advise.
I always prefill the pump side of the oil filter base with oil prior to cranking the first time, I also bypass the cooler till its running.
jumpinjan
Bronze Level Sponsor
Yeah, I would like to develop a prelube system that doesn't need to crank over the engine, just insert oil pressure directly into the block's oil gallery port on the filter base, and be done with all that engine cranking for 3 mins. Probably just use a metal pressure container and use compressed air to push the oil.
RootesRacer
Donation Time
An accusump would be ideal, but a non-accumulator would work as well using 5 quarts of oil in a tank you can pressurize to 30 or so PSI.
Put a clear hose in the end and when you see the first bubble you are done.
BTW the cheap versions of accusumps are literally a bottle holding air and oil, that is it has no bladder and counts on a bubble of air at the top for the accumulator effect.
RootesRooter
Donation Time
You didn't say how long you ran it; I assume less than a minute? I don't know if it's trapped air or what, but I've had a couple of never-fired rebuilds that took a while for the oil pressure to 'catch' and the gauge needle to suddenly pop up.
I'd take Jumpin Jan's advice to remove the spark plugs, then remove the coil wire and crank it without spark, either by starter or handcrank, intermittantly for a couple of minutes.
I assume whatever oil is in there is not the PO's?
Since it's a rebuild of unknown quality, I'd pull the valve cover and check the valve clearances before firing it up, which would also give you a chance to pour a little oil down to all the lifters. The clearances don't need to be perfect, since you'll need to re-set them with the engine hot, but you don't want to burn an exhaust valve immediately 'cause the PO set it at .005 either.
I'd take Jumpin Jan's advice to remove the spark plugs, then remove the coil wire and crank it without spark, either by starter or handcrank, intermittantly for a couple of minutes.
I assume whatever oil is in there is not the PO's?
Since it's a rebuild of unknown quality, I'd pull the valve cover and check the valve clearances before firing it up, which would also give you a chance to pour a little oil down to all the lifters. The clearances don't need to be perfect, since you'll need to re-set them with the engine hot, but you don't want to burn an exhaust valve immediately 'cause the PO set it at .005 either.
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Jan,
Off topic but if you start with a vessel that holds 10 quarts, put in 5 quarts of oil then pressurize the vessel to 30psi.
If you release the oil out the bottom till you hit 15psi, thats about all 5 quarts.
Off topic but if you start with a vessel that holds 10 quarts, put in 5 quarts of oil then pressurize the vessel to 30psi.
If you release the oil out the bottom till you hit 15psi, thats about all 5 quarts.
Ken Ellis
Donation Time
Your other tests have sort of ruled this out, but if the oil pressure gauge line was totally empty, oil would have to fill the line, and then compress the air in the line to 40 psi for that pressure to register. If it's also filling every other (free-flowing) passage in the engine, that could take some time to happen.
I don't think that this was the first time the engine was run after being rebuilt. The PO said he drove it 100 miles after transplanting the engine. I doubt that he drove it that far, but I don't doubt the he started it and drove it a short distance. I bought the car and had it shipped to me and when it arrived it was 30 degrees out and the car would start, but wouldn't run above idle. It had no choke and as it turns out the fuel line was plugged. It only ran long enough to back off the truck and to my trailer. That was seven months ago. I guess i didn't check oil pressure then. I bought the car because it was a rust free accident free body, which I couldn't find locally. I plan on an engine transplant in the future but would like to use it as is while it awaits its turn in the project line. All that aside, how can I prime the oil system? It has a spin on filter.
RootesRacer
Donation Time
You arent going to take the advice on the oil pressure relief valve?
Thats simpler and faster than priming the pump.
To prime the pump, remove the oil filter and get a small funnel and fill the two ports on the filter base to (where the filter was).
One is the feed from the pump, the other is the feed to the engine main galleys. Fill them both and you can be sure it will build pressure fast.
If it has an oil cooler, remove one line and fill it with oil then re-attach to the oil cooler adapter.
You will make a mess with oil doing this.
Removed the pressure valve. Pushed the piston with a screwdriver. Seemed okay. Not sticking. Replaced and cranked engine with the gauge port on the block open. Big mistake. Big mess. But at least I have oil pressure. Cleaned up spill. Hooked up gauge. Started engine. Oil pressure to 40 psi. Horray! Wait! NO, oil pressure dropping and goes to zero after 20-30 seconds. Shut engine off and pull the valve again. Repeat. Same results. Pull valve again and replace with a different valve. Does the same thing. Starts, goes to 40 psi for 20-30 seconds and then drops to zero. Any ideas on the next move?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Thanks for any suggestions.
RootesRacer
Donation Time
You did check the oil level right?
Best guess is the pump strainer is crudded up, that is if you have oil.
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Probably has nothing to do with removing the valve, but rather having the engine stop for some time.
If you only have 2 quarts or so of oil, 20 seconds of running may cavitate the pump and leave no pressure till the oil drains back down. Your dipstick may be incorrect so verify you have 5 qts of oil in the sump.
Along the same lines, a crudded up pump strainer may take 20 seconds to fully plug, then pass insufficient oil to make pressure.
There could also me some choice mod or substitution in the oil pickup putting it too high in the sump.
Lastly you may have horrible luck and both relief valves are sticking open after some time.
Ken Ellis
Donation Time
There could be crud in the gauge line, too. Might be worth removing line at the gauge and blowing it back thru... either into the block or out the other end if you remove it.
Mine was stuck on 40 for years... even with the engine off. Blew out the line, and vac pumped the gauge, and it works fine now.
Mine was stuck on 40 for years... even with the engine off. Blew out the line, and vac pumped the gauge, and it works fine now.
I drained the oil out of the pan after sitting for a few days. Definately not 5 qts came out. I am assuming since the engine ran for a short time that the oil cooler is full. I need to get a reference on my dipstick. Should I now put in 5 qts of oil? I plan on using 20W50 Castrol. This is what I use in my BSA Rocket3 and i have 2 qts already ($5.29/qt). When doing an oil change how do you drain the cooler? How much does it hold?