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New to Alpines and in need of a clutch

AlsPine

Donation Time
Hi Trevor,
Sorry I left out that detail. It's been several years sense I went through this.
The screwdriver freed up the edge of the disk, and then the putty knife slides under to separate the disk.
Make sure your helper has the clutch petal pushed all the way down to the floor.
 

altered

Donation Time
Well, I got the putty knife and was able to hammer it in all the way around on both sides of the clutch plate but still no good. I guess the tranny is coming out. Any tips from you guys that have been down that road. Shortcuts or some "don't do this" comments.

Thanks, Trevor.
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
Hi Trevor,
The putty knife trick only works if one side of the clutch had separated from ether the pressure plate or the flywheel with about a 1/8" gap. If you have pressed the clutch petal in, but nether side of the disk has released, then you have another issue.
If you Successfully ran the putty knife all the way around both sides of the disk, then the clutch system isn't working correctly, or the wrong components were used.
When you press the clutch petal down, does the slave cylinder push the release rod out the full stroke? If so, then there is an issue with the clutch assy.
The person that you bought it from may have used the wrong pressure plate for the series V. There are 2 different types of pressure plates. The early cars had a spring type of pressure plate, and the series V has the diaphragm type of pressure plate. The pedestal that holds the throw out bearing arm are different heights depending on the pressure plate type. The throw out bearing is different between the 2 types also.
There is also a MG pressure plate that is supposed to work with the Alpine, but I don't know anything about that setup.
Guess you are down to the last resort now, pulling the transmission.
It can be done without pulling the engine.

The procedure has been discussed on a different thread here.

First thing to do is pull 1 bolt out of the bell housing, and go to your parts store and get 2 bolts of that size about 6 or 8" long and install them on opposite sides of the bell housing before you remove the other bolts. This will prevent the transmission from unexpectedly sliding out and hitting the deck when the last bolt is removed. Also, when installing the transmission, they will act as guides in aligning everything up when you install it.
Be sure to remove the speedo cable, as sometimes that gets overlooked.
I don't recall having to remove the radiator due to fan to radiator clearance, but check that. Its been a lot of years sense I pulled the transmission with this procedure.
Do all of the regular things, Drain the oil, pull the drive shaft disconnect the clutch slave cylinder, starter and disconnect the battery etc.
Check the fuel line at the pump from the tank and make sure it won't bind when the engine tilts back, otherwise remove it and seal off the end to keep the gas from running out.
You will have to pull the intake and exhaust manifold from the head and perhaps the upper radiator hose. Check for anything else that might bind under the hood. Put the car up on jack stands as high as they go and put some sort of safety blocks under the front and rear of the car in case one of the jack stands slips. Support the bottom of the transmission with a floor jack, remove the transmission cross member bolts and remove the bracket, Then start lowering the transmission. Have a helper hold a small block of 3/8" plywood between the valve cover and the firewall then let the transmission down until the valve cover rests on the wood. The transmission should be tilted down low enough to slide back and come out after you remove the guide bolts. Lower the floor jack and move the transmission out of the way.
If you see any seepage from the input shaft or the drive shaft seals on the transmission, now would be a good time to replace them.

I know you have gone through a lot with this problem. Even asking questions here on the board doesn't give you all of the answers. It is hard to give advice, when we are not standing there looking at your problem in person. If you were close to me, would have come over and given you a hand.
I can only relate my experience with the same type of problem that I had. Didn't account for perhaps the wrong parts used, broken clutch plate, although I never have heard of one that came apart to the point that it wouldn't move.
I guess I assumed that the clutch system was working and pressure plate was releasing one side of the disk.
Will be checking this thread often sunday, so let us know what you find, and I or others here will try to answer any other questions you might have.
Good luck.
Al
 

steven

Donation Time
A fix that works for a frozen clutch is to jack the rear up and put a block of wood under the diff that lifts the rear wheels. Start the engine in gear (preferably 4th straight thru) and have someone behind the car, push it off the block. works very well to free the jammed clutch.
Steven
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
You might go back and read the complete thread.
He had tried all the tricks. Something it not right internally. The clutch pressure plate is not opening when the petal is pressed. if it was, it would have broken free from one side of the disk.
Good idea though.
Cheers
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
Although with that procedure, things could break. I have seen the output shaft of the transmission twisted on the splines from a shock like that. Wouldn't take the chance.
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
I would check the hydraulic system one more time and verify you are getting reasonable movement out of the clutch arm. Remember most of these methods of using a screw driver or putty knife you have to have pressure off the disc for it to work (Clutch in).

Better than the dropping off the block but still a bit of a risk to the output shaft this method can work;

provided the clutch hydraulics AND BRAKES are working that is :-
1) Rear of car up on axle stands. (jack still under the pumpkin for additional safety)
2) Start engine with car in 2nd gear (and handbrake off!)
3) Rev engine up to about 2000-3000 rpm. (sometimes more)
4) FOOT HARD DOWN ON CLUTCH PEDAL... quickly jab on the brake briefly.

If it doesn't work removing the transmission becomes the main option. (and make sure you do this outside in the clear and ready to shut off the engine. Needless to say the hazzards that could occur)

By having it up on the stands/jack you can quickly give the disc a couple of decent shocks in a row. Of course your brakes have to be working well and don't be timid (remember jabs with clutch in). It will take many jabs at the brakes but you don't even have to stall the engine]... you're just trying to get the disc to break free like using an air impact gun on a wheel nut.

There is the risk of breaking the output shaft (more so with an OD transmission - wouldn't try it with an OD transmission).

Good luck. Pulling the transmission is not fun.
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
His disk isn't releasing from the pressure plate or flywheel. He stated the the putty knife has been worked all the way around of the disk, the pressure plate is not opening up..
What you described is one of the things that I tried when my clutch disk stuck to the pressure plate and flywheel. I really had to press on the clutch petal really hard, then I heard a snap. The disk broke free from the pressure plate, put stuck fast to the flywheel. I tried everything to beak it free. Did your trick.
Jacked up the rear end, jack stands in place. ran the engine until I was at about 60mph and pressed in the clutch and jumped on the brakes. no joy. Did it in forward and reverse several times until I had smoking rear brakes.
So ended up prying the disk off of the flywheel.
Bottom line is that the surface tension of a stuck disk to the flywheel is just too strong to brake free by a twisting motion parallel to the two surfaces.
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Alspine,

I hear what you are saying.... most likely he will have to pull his transmission.


I am saying

1) I think he needs to check his hydraulics one more time to verify he has significant movement in the clutch arm to move the pressure plate.

2) Most likely this transmission is going to have to come out. Which is unfortunate.


(I'll mention that dropping the car on the ground is really hard on the system. Jabs on the brakes on a jack stand is a bit more forgiving - but not great - but overall it works better. One other detail, the brakes should be jabbed on repeatedly - not held on here shouldn't be any smoking. Driving around on the stuck disc often isn't useful but sometimes works.

Steve
 

Ragg Mopp

Donation Time
Has the slave cylinder been checked to be sure it is located in the proper position? If it is placed on the starter side of the housing it won't push far enough to release the clutch. It needs to be on the transmission side. I made that mistake once.
 

altered

Donation Time
Hi Guys, I have tried everything suggested to no avail.I will go through the hydraulics to make sure everything is working as nothing seems to be releasing the clutch plate. How much movement should there be on the slave cylinder? I have bled the clutch system, the slave is on the correct side. If that stuff seems to be fine, I get it's coming out.

Thanks, Trevor.
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
I probably missed it in the thread, but I don't see where you've tried driving it on the street with the clutch depressed. I've used this 3-4 times over the years, and it's always worked. It does require that your car is near a wide street, or preferably a cul de sac, where you can safely start it in gear and drive it in circles til the clutch pops free. I've had it take as long as five minutes of circling, romping on and off the gas.
 

altered

Donation Time
I haven't done the drive. I don't have insurance on the car. It makes an awful squeal when I step on the clutch so I think at this point I will pull it apart and go through it just to be sure.
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
I probably missed it in the thread, but I don't see where you've tried driving it on the street with the clutch depressed. I've used this 3-4 times over the years, and it's always worked. It does require that your car is near a wide street, or preferably a cul de sac, where you can safely start it in gear and drive it in circles til the clutch pops free. I've had it take as long as five minutes of circling, romping on and off the gas.

Driving in circles, romping on and off the gas solves all sorts of problems.:D
 

Robbo

Donation Time
Had a similar recent experience. Mine was a bad clutch release bearing. I'd heard from many members who indicate seeing different types (carbon and roller) in cars they had purchased and thought it would be good to get a baseline on the bearing with the original part. I took mine apart and couldn't tell if it was bad or not though it had been worn out. Ended up putting the carbon bearing in and solved my problem. Even if it's not the release bearing, when you take apart, probably a good part to replace new while you're at it. Good luck!
 

altered

Donation Time
Yeah, I think pulling it apart isn't a bad idea. I'm pretty sure that bearing is bad. I've done some reading and it sounds like a 50/50 on whether to pull the tranny out the bottom or pull motor and tranny together. Any thoughts?

Trevor.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
whether to pull the tranny out the bottom or pull motor and tranny together. Any thoughts?

I'd say, if you are well equipped to pull a motor, already have the lift/hoist, and room, then pull the motor and tranny together. If that's a bit of a bother- gotta rent or borrow, etc - and you can more easily get the car up on solid ramps and get under it, then pulling the tranny is really not very difficult. Without OD there is plenty of clearance room. With OD it's a bit more snug clearing the tail down past the frame.

Tom
 

Ron67Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Yeah, I think pulling it apart isn't a bad idea. I'm pretty sure that bearing is bad. I've done some reading and it sounds like a 50/50 on whether to pull the tranny out the bottom or pull motor and tranny together. Any thoughts?

Trevor.

This ain't no technical advice, but IMO, if you pull the engine and tranny, there is the possibility of "mission creep".
Hmm I've got the engine out, is there something I can do about those leaks...might as well pull the pan and see what the bottom end looks like...as long as I have the pan off, I might as well look @ the oil pump...wasn't there something about a chevy rod mod?...might as well send the head out for some much needed work...might as well do something about that timing cover leak, what was that mod?...:eek:
Good luck
Ron
 
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