Mystery serial number

[Matthew.Rogerson]

I’ve been scouring the internet looking for identification info on my engine block, stamp B006017 964BH SX. It doesn’t seem to fit the pattern. Any info would be appreciated. The vehicle is a series 5 and is identifiable as such by the bonnet number. Thanks all, any info or clues are appreciated.

 

[DanR]

Post a nice clear picture of the tags..... Be much better for getting help in identifying

 

[Matthew.Rogerson]

Thanks will do. Would you happen to have any of those battery boxes left kicking around?

 

[DanR]

Thanks will do. Would you happen to have any of those battery boxes left kicking around?

Yep I have 2 left.

Send me your contact via PM here on the Forum and I will call you.

 

[husky drvr]

identification info on my engine block, stamp B006017 964BH SX

Matthew,

More pictures of the engine than just serial number might help identification, specifically the head, manifolds and how the dipstick is installed. Just curious if you have an alloy head or an iron head.

The stamping might be a bit different than what you think. Incorrect or poorly stamped engine blocks are known to exist.

I'll try and make a guess about what seems to be your block stamping until additional verification. May not be correct.

Is it possible your stamping is actually "B006017964 BW LSX"?

I'm not sure if an engine destined for Canada would have been considered as a "Home" market destination without right hand drive. The separation of the last three digits should look as if a different stamp holder was used than the first part of the serial and not much care was used to align first and second parts.

The serial seems to fit the Series VI Minx Deluxe series of builds which began in 1965 with B006000001.

That model was produced for three years or so. The Audax time period serials didn't really specify the year of production, just the model. The "17964" is the sequential number, probably in the later half of production. You could check the casting date on the block for a better idea.

Breakdown =

nine digits after B

B = production in 1960's decade
----------------------------------------------
"006" = model - Series VI Minx Deluxe
----------------------------------------------
"017964" sequential production number
-----------------------------------------------
BW = Borg Warner Automatic transmission

1st position--------------------------------( with an "H" in first position, third should usually be "O")

H = Home market

R = right hand drive - export

L = left hand drive - export

2nd position----------------------------------

S =Saloon

Third position----------------------------------

X = non standard - usually sealed beam head lights

O = Standard
-----------------------------------

Hope all this rambling is coherent and helpful,

 

[Matthew.Rogerson]

Few photos as requested. Block doesn’t match. I believe the head is aluminium.

 

[Matthew.Rogerson]

Your identification is fantastic, thank you for the excellent information!

 

[husky drvr]

Your identification is fantastic, thank you for the excellent information!

Your welcome, Matthew.

Thanks for the pictures. They help answer some questions, but certainly raise others about the history of your Alpine and engine.

The "H" between the BW and LSX indicates the Minx was equipped with HIGH compression, lower compressions were an option for the Minx.

From your serial number tag, the colour code 100 indicates your Alpine was originally Mediterranean Blue.

The dipstick mounted in the block verifies you have a five main bearing engine. Not actually a question considering the serial number.

Yes, you have an alloy head, but it raises another question. The two bare, threaded studs at the center of the head are for the coil mounting bracket used on earlier series Alpines. You also have twin DOWN draft Zeniths and I think an air cleaner for an Alpine 3GT instead of the original Side draft Zenith-Stromberg carbs. Not an issue if it all fits and works together. In fact if working and well tuned, I'd like to think it's fun to drive.

You should be aware that the earlier head has slightly smaller valves and combustion chamber than a 1725 Alpine head. The valve size wont be an issue for normal driving. The smaller chamber will give a slightly higher compression ratio than a stock Alpine 1725's 9.2:1 ratio so you should probably always use premium fuel to help defend against "knock."

You are also missing the sV's oil cooler adapter base and system. Oh, you might want to start trying to acquire a replacement oil filter base before the one you have mounted comes apart where it's cracked at the mounting bolt. Might help reduce a leak.

Hope this is of further help,

 

[Matthew.Rogerson]

Thanks Don, much appreciated. Quite the interesting mishmash of an engine! Out of curiosity would you know off the top of your head if one of the Alpine Innovations Weber conversions would work with this Minx setup? As you likely noted the carbs are in rough shape.

 

[alpine_64]

Thanks Don, much appreciated. Quite the interesting mishmash of an engine! Out of curiosity would you know off the top of your head if one of the Alpine Innovations Weber conversions would work with this Minx setup? As you likely noted the carbs are in rough shape.

If you have an alloy head the Ai manifold will work.
The block being from a minx doesn't matter as all the cam, distributor etc will have been swapped too.

The pistons in it would be of interest, I'm not sure of the comp ratio of the " high compression" minx.. but I might guess given they have the iron head may be lower than the alloy head...but as mentioned you have an early head.. that if stock will have slightly smaller combustion chambers.

 

[husky drvr]

Thanks Don, much appreciated. Quite the interesting mishmash of an engine! Out of curiosity would you know off the top of your head if one of the Alpine Innovations Weber conversions would work with this Minx setup? As you likely noted the carbs are in rough shape.

Matthew,

Yes, the AI Weber conversion set should fit and work well with your engine.

Have you had the engine running? Or know for certain - by witnessing - that it ran smoothly in the past?

I ask this because, if not, some testing may be in order to see if the the Minx cam was changed for the Alpine cam. The iron heads and the alloy heads have different valve orders requiring different camshafts. It's not difficult to check with the valve cover off.

If you need to check, let me know.

Hope this helps,

 

[husky drvr]

The block being from a minx doesn't matter as all the cam, distributor etc will have been swapped too.

The pistons in it would be of interest, I'm not sure of the comp ratio of the " high compression" minx.. but I might guess given they have the iron head may be lower than the alloy head...but as mentioned you have an early head.. that if stock will have slightly smaller combustion chambers.

Michael,

Considering the "mix-master" collection of parts on the engine, the cam - hopefully - was changed.

The Minx high comp engine used the same dish piston as the Alpine. The difference is in the chamber size.

I've thought the early head would make an excellent start for a Vizard mod for a 1725, but the larger valve size 1725 head seems to be as important to most as the improved flow. Besides, it's probably easier to find a later head in good condition.

Minx 1725 > High comp is 8.4:1.

>>>>>>> > Low comp is 7.5:1.

Hope this helps,

 

[alpine_64]

Michael,

Considering the "mix-master" collection of parts on the engine, the cam - hopefully - was changed.

The Minx high comp engine used the same dish piston as the Alpine. The difference is in the chamber size.

I've thought the early head would make an excellent start for a Vizard mod for a 1725, but the larger valve size 1725 head seems to be as important to most as the improved flow. Besides, it's probably easier to find a later head in good condition.

Minx 1725 > High comp is 8.4:1.

>>>>>>> > Low comp is 7.5:1.

Hope this helps,

Don,

Good point... They may not have swapped the cam and distributor .. that would certainly make for some interesting running.

Iirc the iron head has a more plectrum chamber shape.. so probably larger than the alloy head and hence lower comp?

8.4 is very low compared to even the lowest Alpine which is 9.1... do you know the iron head chamber cc?

Re flow... The exhaust port issue on the Rootes heads is terrible.... The bigger that exhaust valve and the more you can try and reduce that sharp turn out on the exhaust side the better to help the head breath...

 

[nsbluenose]

I have this ‘mix-master’ set up in my Singer. A 1725 Minx engine with a Alpine 1725 aluminum head with hardened valve seats. When we first tried to start the rebuilt engine we couldn’t start it no matter what. Discovered that the camshafts were different, we had used the correct Alpine distributor. Took the engine apart, switched to the Alpine camshaft and the engine started right up. Running great with a 32/36 Weber.

 

[husky drvr]

8.4 is very low compared to even the lowest Alpine which is 9.1... do you know the iron head chamber cc?

Michael,

Yes, 8.4 does seem low as a number, but if you check the specs in WSM 145 you'll find the actual compression pressure a surprise. The way the cam is ground and timed delivers a compression pressure only ~ 10 PSI down from Alpine pressure specs.

Without checking two manuals IIRC, the 1725 iron head uses the same size valves as a sIV Alpine. Everything else is different, though. The chamber shape is a bit larger and shallower, but the same general shape as an alloy head chamber. Oh yeah, thanks for the new word. Maybe I can find a lump of iron for a portrait.

The way I imagine the exhaust port is the smaller valve should have a smaller bowl which probably should have a bit more material to allow a SLIGHTLY more generous radius to be formed. I have no experience doing that work so I don't know if it would help.

Just a thought,

EDIT - add pictures

Iron 1390 head

 

[alpine_64]

The chamber shape is a bit larger and shallower, but the same general shape as an alloy head chamber. Oh yeah, thanks for the new word. Maybe I can find a lump of iron for a portrait.

The way I imagine the exhaust port is the smaller valve should have a smaller bowl which probably should have a bit more material to allow a SLIGHTLY more generous radius to be formed. I have no experience doing that work so I don't know if it would help.

Just a thought,

EDIT - add pictures

Iron 1390 head

View attachment 28703

View attachment 28704

Don,

Cheers for the photos... The chamber shape is the plectrum shape I mentioned.. I would consider this a VERY different shape to the tapered bathtub profile of the alloy head.. it would have a very different flame front and flow characteristics.

Iirc the Vizard book also had mods for the iron head ( hence my hazzy recollection of the chamber shape ) they also have different sequences for the pairing if intake and exhaust ports .. I've heard from guys who rally hunters in Australia that they could get comparable hP out of the iron heads as alloy without the HG issues

 

[Matthew.Rogerson]

Thanks all. I did have it running driving last year, without any noticeable engine knocking or sputtering. That’s about the only thing that went smoothly. I have checked the compression on all cylinders and they are fairly consistent with some divergence on the outside two cylinders that feed into the exhaust manifold 90s. I’ll post some photos once I begin disassembling.