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Help! Need SIII Trans.

Andrew

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
Hi!
Well it looks as if I will have to do some work! When I purchased my SIII someone had taken the original SIII Trans. out of my car and installed a SV. That was all well and good but under high revs she spits out of gear in 1st & 2nd. I know it is a tall order but if anyone has a SIII Trans. I would love to hear from you!
All the best,
Andrew Masse
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
transmissions

you'll find different gear ratio's on the series 3 versus series 1,2 & 4.all cars were non syncro on first gear until late series 4 cars.they were all coarse spline on the input and output shafts until later series 5 cars.
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
65beam said:
you'll find different gear ratio's on the series 3 versus series 1,2 & 4.all cars were non syncro on first gear until late series 4 cars.they were all coarse spline on the input and output shafts until later series 5 cars.
Click to expand...


Funny thing, much like a lot of the rootes documentation as being not always correct, I have seen 2 different series 3 transmissions (based on mfgr date) as not having the close ratio trans.
 
Jeff Scoville

Jeff Scoville

Donation Time
What and where are the markings and or dates located to figure out the different tranny's?
I've got about 10 complete gearboxes lying around, i'd be willing to take a look if I knew what I was looking for.
If someone could list the codes and or dates it will make this easier.
Thanks guys, and Andrew, i'll let you know after this weekend.
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
trans

i don't know about anyone else,but i hate driving a car with a non syncro first gear trans.they sound terrible in first gear.and you'll find most used nonsyncro trans have bad first gears.
 
Andrew

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
SIII Trans!

Well, with the few emails that I have received, I am not sure what to do.
I would like my SIII to be as original as possible, I like when a car is original (well, I try my best to keep it as original as I can with the limited funds that I have). The car has a SV Tranny in it now and I worry that it is going to let me down. So I guess I would like to ask the group what they think would be best! Would I be better to rebuild the SV tranny that I have or should I make the change? I just thought that if I have to pull the SV tranny, I might as well change it back to a SIII, that is if I could get my hands on a good tranny. Is there that much of a change in the cars and how they run as per what tranny is installed? :confused:
Andrew
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Jeff Scoville said:
What and where are the markings and or dates located to figure out the different tranny's?
I've got about 10 complete gearboxes lying around, i'd be willing to take a look if I knew what I was looking for.
If someone could list the codes and or dates it will make this easier.
Thanks guys, and Andrew, i'll let you know after this weekend.
Click to expand...

Casting dates on the case.

If it was cast in late 62 or 63 I would expect it to be an SIII.


Like I said, I have one (63 casting date) but the dog gone thing has SII ratios in it.
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
trans

it seems that the layshafts seem to wear out in the syncro trans after 40 to 50 k miles.since you have a full syncro trans you will find parts easy to get.i had the trans for my series 5 rebuilt this past summer including layshaft,syncro's,some bearings,seals,gaskets etc plus had the front drive shaft yoke machined to match the rear bushing in the tail shaft.it's new.it should last for as long as i can continue to drive.total cost was 562.00.it's a joy to drive and gives you peace of mind to know that it will get you there and back home. i guess what i'm saying is take the time to make it right unless you find a used trans that someone knows to be in great shape. it's no fun to be parked at the side of the road waiting for AAA.especially if the wife is along.
 
Jeff Scoville

Jeff Scoville

Donation Time
65beam said:
.i had the trans for my series 5 rebuilt this past summer including layshaft,syncro's,some bearings,seals,gaskets etc plus had the front drive shaft yoke machined to match the rear bushing in the tail shaft.it's new.it should last for as long as i can continue to drive.total cost was 562.00..
Click to expand...


Who did the rebuild?
 
Pumpkin

Pumpkin

Donation Time
tranny

You do not need a whole new tranny, I'd like to sell you the one I have listed but,, yours' just needs an overhaul. It sounds like a syncro bar maybe shift forks reaglined and new bearings. Above all new bearings and seals..:)
My 2.5 p
Chuck
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
trans rebuild

jeff,

it was rebuilt by a long time sunbeam owner that has learned the in's and out's of making it better than new.
 
jumpinjan

jumpinjan

Bronze Level Sponsor
65beam said:
...plus had the front drive shaft yoke machined to match the rear bushing in the tail shaft.it's new.
Click to expand...
That's a backwards way of getting the fit. The tailshaft bushings are made to be way undersized to accomadate the wear of the drive shaft yoke. In this way, only the bushings need replacing and not new bushings & the yoke. The approved process is to hone the new bushings (with a Sunnen hone setup, every shop should have one), to get the correct clearance on the yoke. Now if the yoke is worn and/or groved, a good shop could grind down the yoke to clean it up and then hone the bushings for the fit (notice that now, those two pieces ARE A MATCHED SET, and they need to stay together!!).
Now, one could easily have this performed 30 years ago in just one shop. Today, it is a difference story and you may have to find two specialized shops to have this work perfomed. Here in Dayton OH, we still have many good machine shops to go to (Thank God!)
Jan
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
tail shaft

jan,
maybe i did not state it quite the way you thought i should have.the facts are that the person who rebuilt this trans knows a whole bunch about beams. if you find fault with what i said so be it! i put a great amount of faith in what he does as many others have over the years.i'm sure he did it right!i do know that the car did a lot of trouble free cruising this past fall.i guess the tail shaft fits good .there are no leaks.sorry he didn't ask your opinion.
 
Jeff Scoville

Jeff Scoville

Donation Time
As the end result is the same (the yoke matches the bushing) I don't see how it matters in which manner it was accomplished.
To be honest, over the years I've swapped driveshafts and trannys to different cars without regaurd to this, and never had an issue.
This was of course before I knew that the fit wasn't standard, but I guess I got lucky!
Also, the reason I asked who did the rebuild was I HATE WORKING ON TRANNYS! The price sounded good and you sound happy, does this person have a name or do they not wish to be referred for more rebuilds?
If you don't mind, please contact him and see.
If he wishes to remain annonymous, PM me.
As I said, he just might end up with a bunch of work!
Anyhow, glad to hear there's more than one person qualified to fix these damn things.
 
jumpinjan

jumpinjan

Bronze Level Sponsor
65beam said:
.sorry he didn't ask your opinion.
Click to expand...
Bob,
Thanks for the complement! :)
The thing is, there are no procedures in the factory shop manual on repairing those support bushings. Your friend's method/proceedure (grinding the yoke's OD undersize to fit the new bearings), would not work on the early cars because their metal dust cover is covering most of the yoke journal.
You mentioned the tailstock seal. Geez, I forgot about that issue. Yes, reducing the OD of the yoke, is not good for good operation of the seal. I don't have any numbers of the ID of the new support bushings, so I don't have a guess at what OD of your yoke might be. Another advantage, on the honing that I recommended, aligns the two support bushings IDs (much like align-boring an engine block) and helps a lot to get a precision fit then his way.
Have a nice day;)
 
Pumpkin

Pumpkin

Donation Time
syncro

Good day,
Is there a difference other than first gear is not syncro?
Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bill, There isn't much at all.
Full syncros to me:
A) it's newer
B) Feels faster.
C) When in a get down go for ride, the full syncro feels more responsive.

Now I am in process of changing out, well the full is out, and installing a re-build OD non-syncro. And be damned I don't know how it's going to be. But I drive mostly highway speeds and about 800+- miles per year. I like the long streches of road and keeeping up with traffic.
Well thats my 2.875 p
Chuck
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
trans rebuild

the person that rebuilt my transmission has so many things on his plate that he finds it hard to do much work of this kind.i find it very hard to deal with people that are so critical of everything that someone else does and the narrow mindness of some people.these cars are not modern engineering marvels and i'm sure there are folks out there who have developed their own methods of repairing them.remember jan :these are my cars and i am very happy with them.
 
F

fowfam

65beam, are you still in need of a trans? I have a non sycro coupled to a 1592 gt block, that will be coming out soom, let me know if interested.
 
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