Ford OHC 'Pinto' engine in Alpine

[Tim R]

A friend of mine here in England has installed a 2.0 Ford overhead cam Pinto engine in his Alpine. He is experiencing a problem getting the temperature sender in the Ford engine to mate up with the Jaegar gauge in the Alpine to give correct engine temperature readings. Presumably the two systems have different resistances that they are reading. The Ford temperature sender is totally different to the Alpine one so they can't just be swapped and he doesn't want to change or alter the gauge in the dashboard. We were wondering whether it is possible to fit an in-line resistor or similar to get the gauge reading correctly? We do not know what the standard resistance of either the Ford or Sunbeam sender units should be. Having checked a number of examples at room temperature all are very different!

If anyone can advise how best to deal with this problem we would be most grateful.

Tim R

 

[Jimjordan2]

Not knowing what the sending unit looks like on the Pinto engine, I personally would think outside the box, and possibly design an adapter to accept the Alpine sender. Not saying it will work, but you're just trying to get to the water jacket to measure the water temp. Possibly even a remote sender off the water hose? Just a thought.

 

[Tim R]

Jim, we thought of possibly using a water hose sender but how do you about calibrating the new sender to an Alpine Jaeger gauge to get an accurate reading?

 

[Ken Ellis]

This thread discusses the development of a document that should provide some good clues on combining the Ford and Sunbeam systems at the electronic level, rather than the liquid level. If the response graph (temp vs. resistance) of each sender is similar, then a straightforward 'calibration resistor' could do the trick. There's some data about that in the referenced thread, but you'd have to research or chart out the performance of the Ford sender to be sure. But it would be far easier than plumbing modifications, unless you have a nice shop at your disposal.

http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/fuel-temp-gauge-troubleshooting.26421/


Here's how the Sunbeam sender works out, with temp (deg C) on the vertical axis and resistance (Ohms) on the horizontal. Note that this data is for SIII thru SV Alpines. Series I and II are different.

 

[DanR]

Guys here that convert their Alpine 4 cyl engines to the Ford 2.8V6 have had success utilizing the Stock Alpine sender!

 

[Charles Johns]

When I built Street Rods I simply got the mechanical gauge from Stewart Warner, Classic gauges, etc. and they come with several brass adaptors to fit most blocks/heads.

 

[Tim R]

Thanks for your help everyone. We have now got a matched sender and gauge and all is good.

 

[DanR]

Tim R, Might be a good idea to record for others what you did to resolve the issue.... I know there is always someone needing that extra bit of info

 

[Tim R]

The post by Charles Johns got us searching for similar options. Prior to reading that we were unaware that you could mix and match the physical fittings and temperature ranges with adapters. Once we knew this we did some internet searching and found the specification at Holden's who supplied a sender that had the correct fitting for the Pinto engine with the correct temperature range for the Alpine gauge.

 

[Charles Johns]

Tim, I spent 50 years building Street Rods with weird engines...1940 Nash LaFette with a 400 Ford truck block...just to name one. Matching gauges with senders that are accurate is extremely important if one is caught in traffic on a 100+ day in Texas. The owner spent $65,000.00 for that car 25 years ago. He had me install the then new Dakota Digital gauges in a custom dash insert we made. He also wanted the front suspension to be Mustang with disc brakes, but no company made a 40 Nash kit. So I adapted a 1947 Ford Fat Man Fabrications kit to the hand built 2x4 box-tubing front frame horns. We do what we have to do to make things work! Bill Blue seems to be a good example of an Alpine guy who is a street rodder at heart...he just got into sporty cars while I got bit by Hot Rod bugs!

 

[dmich2]

Hey Bill Blue. Didn't you do the Pinto 4 banger years ago? I thought that's what you were running the first time I met you at Ian's in Ohio? in like 2006?

Dennis

 

[Bill Blue]

More like 2007, but what's a year or two between friends? It had been on the road about a week when we drove (well, most of the way) to Invasion VII. That is the one in which Todd swapped engines. Oh the fun times!

Yes, it was 2000 cc Pinto with turbocharger, blowing through a Fish carb. Worked very good until the float sank. Long, long story from long ago. Anybody need a 2.0 Pinto with turbo? Only about 10,000 miles on it.

Bill

 

[Charles Johns]

Question, has anyone driven lots of highway miles with the hardtop on, windows up, floor vents open, rear vent windows open and been comfy? My 32 Ford coupe did not have AC but the windshield swung out and the rear window rolled down to talk to people in the rumble seat. With baby-wipes and the fresh air we traveled thousands of summer miles in that coupe in relative comfort. Only problem, that was back in the 70,s...now I'm in MY 70's!!! Bill, you out there?

 

[DanR]

Question, has anyone driven lots of highway miles with the hardtop on, windows up, floor vents open, rear vent windows open and been comfy? My 32 Ford coupe did not have AC but the windshield swung out and the rear window rolled down to talk to people in the rumble seat. With baby-wipes and the fresh air we traveled thousands of summer miles in that coupe in relative comfort. Only problem, that was back in the 70,s...now I'm in MY 70's!!! Bill, you out there?

John, Not all ALpine have the floor vents, only SV's..... unless of course you modify your early Series with them.

My '67 has the floor vents and were very nice when travelling around with the Hardtop inplace. Yes the "open" rear windows made for a nice breeze.

Becoming older and "climitzed" to immediate heat or cold, I tried to make my SV more modern, yes, A/C and I can drive around with or without the Hardtop. At 79 and going on 80 I enjoy all the comforts of modern driving....

 

[Bill Blue]

Yes, but I cannot help you much. I knew from day one the car would have AC, so all of the vents were closed off. In addition, our hardtop is a fiber glass aftermarket item that does not have side windows. We seldom turn on the air until the outside temp gets well into the 80's as we prefer to roll the windows down.

Alpines are hot. It seems the engine/exhaust heat bakes you. No running in hot weather with windows up. The guys in the southeast put their Alpines away in the summer, but that may be mostly a humidity issue.

Bill

 

[Charles Johns]

Thanks guys, now I know what I will do with that roll of heat/sound foil & fiberglass 1/2" insulation I have. Firewall and floor shall be covered with extra insulation on top of some rubber...ish flooring cover I have. With that, then the aforementioned insulation under new carpet, plus the firewall covered, maybe I can stay cool...ish. I spray rubber undercoating on the inside of doors and quarter panels and insulate the panel between the trunk and interior with foam 1/2" thick glued there. While I have the car dismantled I may build an inner firewall to block heat. My 32 had that and it worked well. Bill, that exhaust heat is why I am making my own header to dump down and not back, plus I will probably cut louvers in the hood for heat venting. My 65 Mustang has a eyebrow slit I made for that very reason as SIXES tend to run hot. I know the Tigers are very hot in summer but did not realize the Alpine had the same problem. Thanks for the info.

 

[Tom H]

Ken Ellis, Nice post (#4) on Feb 27. But may I suggest you edit it to indicate that this data is for SIII thru SV Alpines. Series I and II are different. Also maybe add the specified numbers at points of 43 ohms at 100C and 650 at 25 C. Might be helpful for someone in the future.

Tom

 

[Ken Ellis]

Doneski. Thanks!