I had that exact thought with mine....so..i actually did a slight mock up to see how it looked and i found it looked extremely odd with my pointed fins....thus i have the more vertical series fins that i will be installing instead of my pointed fins !!!
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Finally, starting my 63 Alpine/ 91 miata hybrid build
- Thread starter Doobs
- Start date
weaselkeeper
Silver Level Sponsor
That's what I was a afraid of. I have a SIV, so no pointy fins.
then yours should look good...as my mock up was with the pointed fins and then with my vertical fins in place....IMO it looked pretty good with the late model t-bird headlights and the later series vertical fins....so Id say your good to go !!!!!
afssanders
Donation Time
conversion
I have done something like this before more then few times. My Dad and I had a couple of customers that would buy rust free coupes and rusty convertibles and we'd convert them. That was a little different then what's going on here, but I've put sh!t together a couple of times that looks like it got hit by a train. Some cars are worth it.
I've read a little of what you plan to do and I have to say. Try to use as much of the Sunbeam as possible. I'm not saying use the interior bits or running gear, but the skins and inner panels wherever possible.
Here's how I would go about it. I would check to see how the Miata will fare when you cut the top side off. If It looks like it might give way a bit I would brace it up, so it doesn't flex. I'm not sure if it has a frame or not, but if it does. You'll be aright.
As strong as a Sunbeam is it will need bracing up. This should give you some idea of how stiff your end product has to be, so the doors don't bang against the quarters. You can always put a rubber snubber between the door and quarter. They use to do that back in the day. The rockers are pretty hard core on the SB and will keep the bottom gap of the doors. The top is another story. You should put X like bracing in the place of the doors. You'll also need to triangulate the passenger compartment. Run a piece of tubing from the top of the back of one door pillar to the lower corner of the other front door pillar and vise versa. Tie them across to keep her from spreading apart. That is 6 pieces just for the passenger compartment and tack them where they intersect. If you haven't figured it out yet. I would do it in one piece. Your gaps will be easy to maintain and the body wont be twisted if you do it this way. When you go to cut the front end off the SB the hood gap is going to get out of control unless you tack some bracing inside the engine bay and tack the hood in place. I can still remember watching my hood gaps tighten as I was cutting the tops of my fenders. That was fun fixing that.. I would expect nothing less from the deck lid. I'd X brace that sucker too and tack the lid in place. If you must keep the hood and deck off. I would X brace both and run two across each opening. Kind like this "IXI" if you were looking down on it. 3/4" conduit works great for bracing. Just smash the end with a hammer, so it's easier to weld up. Just so we're on the same page, that's 18 pieces I would start with.
It's hard for me to explain stuff to people in writing, but that's about it.
I have done something like this before more then few times. My Dad and I had a couple of customers that would buy rust free coupes and rusty convertibles and we'd convert them. That was a little different then what's going on here, but I've put sh!t together a couple of times that looks like it got hit by a train. Some cars are worth it.
I've read a little of what you plan to do and I have to say. Try to use as much of the Sunbeam as possible. I'm not saying use the interior bits or running gear, but the skins and inner panels wherever possible.
Here's how I would go about it. I would check to see how the Miata will fare when you cut the top side off. If It looks like it might give way a bit I would brace it up, so it doesn't flex. I'm not sure if it has a frame or not, but if it does. You'll be aright.
As strong as a Sunbeam is it will need bracing up. This should give you some idea of how stiff your end product has to be, so the doors don't bang against the quarters. You can always put a rubber snubber between the door and quarter. They use to do that back in the day. The rockers are pretty hard core on the SB and will keep the bottom gap of the doors. The top is another story. You should put X like bracing in the place of the doors. You'll also need to triangulate the passenger compartment. Run a piece of tubing from the top of the back of one door pillar to the lower corner of the other front door pillar and vise versa. Tie them across to keep her from spreading apart. That is 6 pieces just for the passenger compartment and tack them where they intersect. If you haven't figured it out yet. I would do it in one piece. Your gaps will be easy to maintain and the body wont be twisted if you do it this way. When you go to cut the front end off the SB the hood gap is going to get out of control unless you tack some bracing inside the engine bay and tack the hood in place. I can still remember watching my hood gaps tighten as I was cutting the tops of my fenders. That was fun fixing that.. I would expect nothing less from the deck lid. I'd X brace that sucker too and tack the lid in place. If you must keep the hood and deck off. I would X brace both and run two across each opening. Kind like this "IXI" if you were looking down on it. 3/4" conduit works great for bracing. Just smash the end with a hammer, so it's easier to weld up. Just so we're on the same page, that's 18 pieces I would start with.
It's hard for me to explain stuff to people in writing, but that's about it.
more pics of strip down ...reading for more bracing and cutting tomorrow !!!
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/Davewe1/Mazpine build pics/
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/Davewe1/Mazpine build pics/
afssanders
Donation Time
images
I can see why you want a bit more Miata in there then popular opinion. Your Sunbeam is a bit cheesy. Never the less. The bottom sheet metal of a Sunbeam is pretty easy to patch. That floor is full of all kinds of bends and laminations. Wait til you cut into the rocker. I was able to peak into mine and it's quite interesting in there. There like a rocker in a rocker, but I'll pretty much bet you already know that by the looks of your car.
Where do you live?
I can see why you want a bit more Miata in there then popular opinion. Your Sunbeam is a bit cheesy. Never the less. The bottom sheet metal of a Sunbeam is pretty easy to patch. That floor is full of all kinds of bends and laminations. Wait til you cut into the rocker. I was able to peak into mine and it's quite interesting in there. There like a rocker in a rocker, but I'll pretty much bet you already know that by the looks of your car.
Where do you live?
Im just outside Calgary, Alberta, Canada
BTW After removing my doors today...I totally understand why they are a royal pain in the a$$ to re-instal...
BTW After removing my doors today...I totally understand why they are a royal pain in the a$$ to re-instal...
afssanders
Donation Time
location
I figured something like. I'm in Minnesota. My clean dented one was from Arizona and my cheesy one was from Iowa. I paid 600 for the AZ and 1850 for the IA car. My Dad said he saw one at a swap meet down there for 550.00 It was bones though.
I figured something like. I'm in Minnesota. My clean dented one was from Arizona and my cheesy one was from Iowa. I paid 600 for the AZ and 1850 for the IA car. My Dad said he saw one at a swap meet down there for 550.00 It was bones though.
Well..you definately do not want to know what i paid for the cheese-mobile....Alpines are very rare around here....one note...mine did run till i removed stuff......But my suspension and powertrain is going to Alpine James to bring his alpine to full alpine parts...instead of his minx hybrid powertrain !!
afssanders
Donation Time
cost
I think I got a great deal for my rust free one. I'm surprised they don't cost more. If it was anything else it would cost a arm and leg. Strange really. I bet a Pinto would cost more.
I think I got a great deal for my rust free one. I'm surprised they don't cost more. If it was anything else it would cost a arm and leg. Strange really. I bet a Pinto would cost more.
Well after cutting the alpine with my sawzall for most the day...I have realized 2 things:
#1 these little cars have to be the most complicated structural cars I have ever seen
#2 I have revamped my build slightly..and will be using as much of the miata as possible...i'll probably end up installing mostly the alpine body that you see and molding it over the miata structure.
Why you ask....since the inner structure is far more rusty than I ever thought...its almost like it was attacked by a metal termite!!!!. The exterior will still look mostly alpine ( front clip, hood, doors, windshield, trunk, fenders, hard top) but the insides and interior will be 75% miata at least.!!!
#1 these little cars have to be the most complicated structural cars I have ever seen
#2 I have revamped my build slightly..and will be using as much of the miata as possible...i'll probably end up installing mostly the alpine body that you see and molding it over the miata structure.
Why you ask....since the inner structure is far more rusty than I ever thought...its almost like it was attacked by a metal termite!!!!. The exterior will still look mostly alpine ( front clip, hood, doors, windshield, trunk, fenders, hard top) but the insides and interior will be 75% miata at least.!!!
afssanders
Donation Time
your project
I figured it would go down as such. All in all it'll look like a Sunbeam from the outside.
I imagine a plastic dash on that car. Have you thought that far ahead yet? That should be fun. When did you realize you opened a can of worms?
I feel for yah. I really do. I sit here and think about what your doing and a lot of sh^t runs through my head. I ask about the dash, because this is going to be difficult to say the least. I picture some trouble where the front of the door posts meet the firewall of the Miata. I guess that is if your using the firewall of the Miata. I don't know. I never measured one a Miata.
I figured it would go down as such. All in all it'll look like a Sunbeam from the outside.
I imagine a plastic dash on that car. Have you thought that far ahead yet? That should be fun. When did you realize you opened a can of worms?
I feel for yah. I really do. I sit here and think about what your doing and a lot of sh^t runs through my head. I ask about the dash, because this is going to be difficult to say the least. I picture some trouble where the front of the door posts meet the firewall of the Miata. I guess that is if your using the firewall of the Miata. I don't know. I never measured one a Miata.Actually I will be using the miata dash with the alpine windshield...I spent all afternoon doing measurements and double checking......i am keeping the miata firewall..and removing the cowl and windshield...Just some trimming off the dash to fit the curve of the alpine window.
But like I stated a while Back...The Miata is so similiar in dimensions its just mind boggling....If someone really wanted to Im confident someone could get a miata dash to fit IN an Alpine quite nicely if the really wanted too!!!
Actually cutting out the miata skin and adding the alpine skin will be much easier than my original idea of removing the bodies directly from the platform and swapping !!!
I think if i ever attempt or know of anyone to cut an alpine apart like this or decide they CAN fix the rust like i had..I will have a few choice words for them...as I am really glad I decided against restoring the car to its original state....as that would have definately drove me insane !!!!
I definately have a completely different opinion on the original construction of these cars....they may not have been built to last thru out the ages...but they sure attempted to make them stiff and safe !!!!!!!!!!
But like I stated a while Back...The Miata is so similiar in dimensions its just mind boggling....If someone really wanted to Im confident someone could get a miata dash to fit IN an Alpine quite nicely if the really wanted too!!!
Actually cutting out the miata skin and adding the alpine skin will be much easier than my original idea of removing the bodies directly from the platform and swapping !!!
I think if i ever attempt or know of anyone to cut an alpine apart like this or decide they CAN fix the rust like i had..I will have a few choice words for them...as I am really glad I decided against restoring the car to its original state....as that would have definately drove me insane !!!!
I definately have a completely different opinion on the original construction of these cars....they may not have been built to last thru out the ages...but they sure attempted to make them stiff and safe !!!!!!!!!!
Well got the body removed off the platform...
if you notice the rear of platform on 2nd shot...after i completely cut the body off the remaining subframe structure totally twisted !!!
CLICK for body removal http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=463569025
trimmed all the rear miata sheet metal off as well....did some measurements and the rear skin off the alpine will fit nicely over the miata inner structure !!
Click for to present build pics http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=463569025
if you notice the rear of platform on 2nd shot...after i completely cut the body off the remaining subframe structure totally twisted !!!
CLICK for body removal http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=463569025
trimmed all the rear miata sheet metal off as well....did some measurements and the rear skin off the alpine will fit nicely over the miata inner structure !!
Click for to present build pics http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=463569025
Im hoping by the weekend to start tack welding the body in place..and hopefully get the doors hung again !!!!
I probably have 2 days of trimming and cutting to get everything ready
once the body is attached and doors hung, i need to get it to a frame shop, as the front end is pushed over 4 inches to the drivers side. Then i will be able to attach the alpine front end.
I'll post more pics once I get the miata and alpine prepped for install, than some more after i get it tacked into place !!
I probably have 2 days of trimming and cutting to get everything ready
once the body is attached and doors hung, i need to get it to a frame shop, as the front end is pushed over 4 inches to the drivers side. Then i will be able to attach the alpine front end.
I'll post more pics once I get the miata and alpine prepped for install, than some more after i get it tacked into place !!
