Clutch question - help!

gary1725 · Sep 9, 2009

Hi Folks,

I have asked this already and it seems to be the simplest of questions but no one responded, I figured I could just keep going and replace the clutch since I was really worried I would adjust the rod to be too long, now I have replaced my clutch and it is not working and the rod seems to be too short!

I have checked that the slave cylinder is on the corect side of the bell housing, the bleed screw is at the top, nothing is leaking and the whole things seems to be operating and I am sure there is no air and yet the clutch will not quite disengage....

So I know that the rod that pushes into the slave cylinder is not a SV per my car....

So what length is the fixed length SV rod???

I can tell that there is another 1/2 inch of travel in the slave cylinder that would be available if the rod I have was longer!

I am trying to get to Altoona on Saturday for a weekend event and so far it is not looking promissing! please help!

Gary

Tom H · Sep 10, 2009

Gary, You say you have checked and the slave is on the correct side of the bell housing. Please be more specific- which side? If you "checked" the WSM it would tell you to put it on the engine side which is INcorrect!

Tom

gary1725 · Sep 10, 2009

No definitely on the gearbox side...

I am now second guessing myself... "Did I put the clutch plate Flywheel side" - no idea what would happen if I hadnâ€™t done this as I have never done that before! but I guess when you check everything else you start to wonder about the things you thought you had already been careful about.....

thanks

Gary

mikephillips · Sep 10, 2009

Did you compare the height of the old pressure plate assembly to the new one?? Alpines used 2 different heights, early and late, and the release bearing fork assembly varied due to that. Having the clutch plate reversed can draw in the center too, but you should have noticed that when reassembling since the pressure plate would have required more effort to attach to the flywheel.
The rod doesn't really affect travel of the slave, at least in terms of being too short. It's limited by when the release bearing cannot move forward any more and by the volume of fluid that the master can move.

gary1725 · Sep 10, 2009

I compared the old and new cover plates and I believe they were the same. My car is a SV and I thought the only change was the number of splines, mine is 10, and that all other components were actually identical.

I also wandered the same thing about the rod length and figured that if the rod moves x inches when the clutch is depressed it doesnâ€™t matter whether it moves from further inside the slave or not because the other end still only moves x inches!

What else could be causing the problem? I am stumped!

RootesRooter · Sep 10, 2009

If the rod was too short, you would probably have the same problem as if the slave was mounted to the wrong side of the bellhousing: the clutch might seem to work, but the piston would soon pop out of the slave. With someone else pumping, does the piston appear to be bulging out the dust cover?

I assume you're not losing any fluid?

Sometimes the clutch system just seems to take a zillion pumps to entirely bleed. No rhyme or reason or quick fixes.

gary1725 · Sep 10, 2009

Thanks... I can not see the piston popping out and I am not loosing any fluid! I didn't actully remove the slave but just tied it out of the way when the box was removed so I hadn't expected to have to bleed it much if at all given that it was working with a very worn clutch before I started. that said I have bled the system a couple of times and to what I thought was enough.. but I did buy another jumbo bottle of fluid this morning and intend to have another go!

I have replaced clutches before and never had this much hassle.. I just expected it to work and I am not looking forward to taking it all apart again!

todd reid · Sep 10, 2009

Clutch

If you haven't rebuilt you clutch master and slave recently, I would do that before pulling the trans again. They might be worn to the point that they still work but with less than 100% efficiency.
Good Luck!

gary1725 · Sep 10, 2009

Again I wondered about that. the slave was new about 2 years ago and the master was in pretty good shape but I rebuilt it anyway about 4 years ago when I first bought the car.. I will try locking things in place and confirm that they hold presure, if the slave was leaking I would expect to be loosing fluid if the master is leaking back past the primary seal then I would expect to have the pedal continue to move when the slave stops moving...

jumpinjan · Sep 10, 2009

I have posted these pictures up here many times now, so here we go again. Here is the picture of a "good" 1725 release arm assembly and where it should be when installed.

jumpinjan · Sep 10, 2009

mikephillips said:
...Alpines used 2 different heights, early and late, and the release bearing fork assembly varied due to that.

On the 8" clutches, all the coil spring pressure plates are the same and used the large carbon bearing & release arm assembly (short pedestal). The 8" diaphram is narrower and it requires the large carbon bearing fork, but the fork is mounted in the tall pedestal (same as the 1725 assembly). Then the 1725 used the 7.5" pressure plate with the small carbon bearing assembly.
Jan

todd reid · Sep 10, 2009

Clutch

4 years is getting into the danger zone. I would stongly recommend rebuilding both the master and slave, unless of course you enjoy pulling transmissions!

gary1725 · Sep 11, 2009

Thanks for everyones replies! I have given up for now, the aim was to get to Altoona tomorrow so we will be going without the Alpine! The clutch still refuses to disengage, It seems to be just there! and every now and then you get just enough and the glears can be selected, but mostly it crunches!

Anyway I did clamp the slave cylinder to prevent the piston moving and I had no travel in the pedal which I hope tells me that at least the master and slave are holding pressure even if a rebuild might be in order.

The rod moves about 1/2 inch when the clutch is depressed and I have no idea if that is normal or enough! It also looks to me that if I had the adjustable rod set to 4 inches long it would be about 1 inch off the locations that Jan had shown in the picture.

I will be thinking about this for a couple of days before taking a fresh look..

thanks again

Gary

SIVAllan · Oct 16, 2009

jumpinjan said:
On the 8" clutches, all the coil spring pressure plates are the same and used the large carbon bearing & release arm assembly (short pedestal). The 8" diaphram is narrower and it requires the large carbon bearing fork, but the fork is mounted in the tall pedestal (same as the 1725 assembly). Then the 1725 used the 7.5" pressure plate with the small carbon bearing assembly.
Jan

Jan

Is this chart accurate?

In particular the pedestal (tall vs short) and the push rod (4" vs 4 1/2") FOR A LARGE 1725 CLUTCH ??

Standard vs Large Clutch: parts for 1725

Standard 7 Â½â€ VS Oversize 8â€ or 8 Â½â€
Machined area on flywheel 9 Â½ â€œ VS 10â€
Dry plate 7 1/2â€ VS 8â€ or 8 Â½â€
Pressure plate cover 9 1/2â€ VS 10â€
Cover height 2 1/8â€ VS 2 Â¼â€
Throwout bearing standard VS oversize
Fork standard VS oversize
Pedestal ? (tall?) VS tall 2 Â¼â€
Slave push rod 4â€ VS 4 Â½â€

Note: short pedestal height 1 1/2"

jumpinjan · Oct 16, 2009

If you have the 8" flywheel & coil spring clutch, you need the large carbon bearing & short pedestal; If you are using the diaphragm pressure plate, use again the large bearing and but swap out for the tall pedestal instead
Jan

mackem · Oct 17, 2009

gary1725 said:
Thanks for everyones replies! I have given up for now, the aim was to get to Altoona tomorrow so we will be going without the Alpine! The clutch still refuses to disengage, It seems to be just there! and every now and then you get just enough and the glears can be selected, but mostly it crunches!

Anyway I did clamp the slave cylinder to prevent the piston moving and I had no travel in the pedal which I hope tells me that at least the master and slave are holding pressure even if a rebuild might be in order.

The rod moves about 1/2 inch when the clutch is depressed and I have no idea if that is normal or enough! It also looks to me that if I had the adjustable rod set to 4 inches long it would be about 1 inch off the locations that Jan had shown in the picture.

I will be thinking about this for a couple of days before taking a fresh look..

thanks again

Gary

I had this same problem with my Alpine SV. My car have the Holbay engine fitted with the 8 1/2 inch clutch and flywheel setup but the clutch fork and pedestal are standard series V. I had the same problem as in not enough travel to allow the clutch to disengage. I just inserted a couple of spacers between the slave cylinder and it's mounting on the gearbox. I started off using several thick washers, just adding more till clutch worked ok, you will need to use longer slave cylinder mounting bolts to compensate for the spacers. You don't need to take the slave cylinder out, just remove the two nuts and bolts, push cylinder towards the the fork arm about an inch, then insert spacers, tighten up and try till you get it right.
Ok it's a bit of a bodge job but it works great on mine