Clutch not engaging. Series V

[Paul354]

When I was out for a drive gone about 15 miles, I stopped at a stop sign. I was able to go into 1st gear and shift into 2nd gear the car would not go into 3rd gear as I slowed, I tried to down shift to 2nd and 1st and it wouldn’t go.
When the engine was not running, I was able to shift through all gears. I started the car with the clutch peddle down, I could not move the shifter into any of the gears.
Parked in the garage now, I can put the car in 1st If I turn the ignition with the car still in 1st it will jump forward as its in gear. Once the car is running the gear shifter will not engage.
I have since put the car on the lift and started it. Once the car has warmed up, I shut it off. I can start the car with it in 1st gear as the wheels aren’t on the ground. I was able to shift through 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th gear. What’s not engaging properly.
Thanks for any help.

 

[hartmandm]

You can do tests with the car off.

Start by checking if pressing the clutch pedal is moving the clutch slave rod. If you have the rubber boot installed, you can squeeze the rubber and locate the joint that connects the clutch slave rod to the clutch pivot fork. You can feel the joint move when pressing the clutch pedal. I'm not sure how much rod travel is normal. Maybe ~ 1/2" ? Hopefully someone knows.

If there is no clutch slave rod movement, has the clutch fluid leaked out? Check the clutch master fluid level.

If the clutch slave rod is moving back and forth, maybe you have an issue with the pressure plate.

Mike

 

[spmdr]

Most likely, Your clutch is not fully Disengaging.

Likely the clutch disk is dragging with the flywheel and/or Pressure plate.

Unless the clutch is fully Disengaged, the synchros in the Trans will bind up

and not let you shift into a forward gear.

It is most likely a hydraulic system issue.

If the fluid level is good, likely the master cylinder is not holding pressure.

But it could be a clutch disk, PP

or possibly a pilot bearing problem.

If it grinds attempting to go into reverse, going/forcing into forward gears is not a good idea.

DW

 

[Paul354]

You can do tests with the car off.

Start by checking if pressing the clutch pedal is moving the clutch slave rod. If you have the rubber boot installed, you can squeeze the rubber and locate the joint that connects the clutch slave rod to the clutch pivot fork. You can feel the joint move when pressing the clutch pedal. I'm not sure how much rod travel is normal. Maybe ~ 1/2" ? Hopefully someone knows.

If there is no clutch slave rod movement, has the clutch fluid leaked out? Check the clutch master fluid level.

If the clutch slave rod is moving back and forth, maybe you have an issue with the pressure plate.

Mike

Mike
I have checked and pressing the clutch does move the slave rod. Approx 1/2 inch
I have the rubber boot attached but have moved it away. The clutch fluid level has not changed

 

[Paul354]

Most likely, Your clutch is not fully Disengaging.

Likely the clutch disk is dragging with the flywheel and/or Pressure plate.

Unless the clutch is fully Disengaged, the synchros in the Trans will bind up

and not let you shift into a forward gear.

It is most likely a hydraulic system issue.

If the fluid level is good, likely the master cylinder is not holding pressure.

But it could be a clutch disk, PP

or possibly a pilot bearing problem.

If it grinds attempting to go into reverse, going/forcing into forward gears is not a good idea.

DW

DW
If the car is started in 1st gear, it will easily shift through the gears. If I apply the brakes basically stopping the car and try to move it into reverse it will grind, I have not pushed it.
Does that still seem like a hydraulic issue or as you say clutch disc PP or pilot bearing

 

[Tim R]

It sounds like the carbon ring on the bearing may have broken up. It won't matter how far you push the pedal down you won't be able to get it to move the plate enough. I would try to get an probe camera and stick it through the opening hole where the lever arm comes out. If the ring has broken up it will be obvious.

Tim R

 

[Knightowl61]

My guess would be the throw-out disk or the fork holding it. The fork broke on one of our members half way to the columbia invasion (about 100 miles).

 

[hartmandm]

Sounds like your hydraulics are ok. Your description is consistent with the pressure plate not releasing the pressure on the clutch disc. Hence the gear grinding when trying to go into a gear.

Time to look inside the bell housing. Multiple possibilities for issues in there, as people have indicated - the fork, throw out bearing, pressure plate, maybe the clutch disc?

You can use a camera and maybe figure out what the issue is, but I expect you will need to remove the gearbox to address the issue.

Mike

 

[Paul354]

Thanks for everyone’s input
I’ve done a lot of reading over the past few days I’ve also had a little more time to look into what may be happening
I put the camera through the side of the bell housing. I think the problem is with the bearing the fork seems to be solid. I’m not sure about the clutch plate and disk and may not know until I get further in
I checked a recent post about the quality of the available bearings it doesn’t look promising.
I’ve started to put together a list of parts I may need. How big of a job am I in for

 

[hartmandm]

I swapped my standard gearbox for an overdrive gearbox. I documented the steps I followed to remove the gearbox. It will give you an idea of the job to remove the gearbox. Gearbox removal steps start on page 12:

http://mhartman.net/files/sunbeam/OD%20gearbox%20installation.pdf

Mike

 

[Shannon Boal]

Hydraulics may be OK, but suggest that you bleed clutch first to be sure. Mine will get a bit of air in it and give your symptoms.

 

[Paul354]

Thanks, Shannon, for sending me back to the original problem.
I did bleed the Clutch and no issue there but I’m glad I checked the easy solution off the list.
After reading Mike’s file and the WSM I’ve now started the disassembly

 

[Tim R]

Paul,
If it is the release bearing breaking up it is well worth finding a roller bearing and installing that instead. The original carbon bearings were fine but the modern, pattern, replacements are absolute rubbish.
Tim R